Saturday, August 25, 2012

Then and Now



A few weeks ago, a podcast listener asked for a few, handy examples of where Liberals hand been right and Conservatives had been wrong.

We were happy to oblige with a few, and here's another.

In 1999 -- nearly 20 years after "...after Reagan had delivered the Conservative movement to the tender mercies of filth like Jerry Falwell" -- this was Andrew Sullivan's deeply held belief about the nature of Liberals, Conservatives, Teh Gay and, in passing, the plight of those poor, poor black Conservatives:

"[H.L. Mencken] reminds me of conservative friends who oppose almost every measure for homosexual equality yet genuinely delight in the company of their gay friends. It would be easier for me to think of them as haters, and on paper, perhaps, there is a good case that they are. But in real life, I know they are not. Some of them clearly harbor no real malice toward me or other homosexuals whatsoever.

"They are as hard to figure out as those liberal friends who support every gay rights measure they have ever heard of but do anything to avoid going into a gay bar with me. I have to ask myself in the same, frustrating kind of way: are they liberal bigots or bigoted liberals? Or are they neither bigots nor liberals, but merely people?
...

"So may other forms of minority loathing -- especially hatred within minorities. I'm sure that black conservatives like Clarence Thomas or Thomas Sowell have experienced their fair share of white racism. But I wonder whether it has ever reached the level of intensity of the hatred directed toward them by other blacks? In several years of being an openly gay writer and editor, I have experienced the gamut of responses to my sexual orientation. But I have only directly experienced articulated, passionate hate from other homosexuals. I have been accused over the years by other homosexuals of being a sellout, a hypocrite, a traitor, a sexist, a racist, a narcissist, a snob. I've been called selfish, callous, hateful, self-hating and malevolent. At a reading, a group of lesbian activists portrayed my face on a poster within the crossfires of a gun. Nothing from the religious right has come close to such vehemence.

"I am not complaining. No harm has ever come to me or my property, and much of the criticism is rooted in the legitimate expression of political differences. But the visceral tone and style of the gay criticism can only be described as hateful. It is designed to wound personally, and it often does. But its intensity comes in part, one senses, from the pain of being excluded for so long, of anger long restrained bubbling up and directing itself more aggressively toward an alleged traitor than an alleged enemy."
...

It is now 13 years later. Clarence Thomas has proven himself to be exactly the sort pliant wingnut cipher that the Left thought he would be (although outside of a Hunter Thompson novel that was never written, I don't know anyone who foresaw what a perfect caricature of a teabagging, drunk-dialing nutcase his lobbyist-wife would turn out to be) and Thomas Sowell has long since given up any pretense of seriousness, instead preferring to (predictably and profitably) embrace just about every batshit scrap of party-line nonsense that rolls off the Fox News/Hate Radio

 

assembly line.

It is now 13 years later.  And here is Mr. Sullivan's revised assessment of his Special Conservative Friends: those who, 13 years ago, some people might have mistaken for haters "on paper" but who, "in real life" Mr. Sullivan knew were not:

But [if Mitt Romney held the same positions on issues related to gay rights as President Obama] the bigots would flee. And without the bigots, there is no Republican majority. My long ago dreams that the GOP would end up where the Tories have on gay equality are ashes now. Bitter, tragic, unnecessary ashes.
Observe how effortlessly Mr. Sullivan referred to Thomas and Sowell and "the bigots" (and so many, many more)  as "conservatives" back when he believed they all had each other's back.  But now that the horde he used to run with and proudly appellate as "Conservative" have proven themselves to be exactly what the Liberals always said they were?



I am genuinely sorry that Mr. Sullivan's dreams ended up as ashes, but far from being "unnecessary", this outcome was inevitable. But before forgiveness comes atonement, and until I start to see a few less "I am the True Conservative and they're all posers!" columns and a few more -- or even one -- "Liberals were right and I was wrong" columns, expect no forgiveness from me.





11 comments:

blackdaug said...

Apparently it's all just a problem with semantics. In that it is apparent Mr. Sullivan has never and does not now know the definition of "american conservativeism". Here is a hint Andy: Everything you cited in that interview as being "not a conservative value"... is in fact, a "conservative value'. In that they are the values that have been espoused loudly by conservatives in this country.... for several decades! Sorry you missed it....hope I didn't interrupt your harvest of mass sums of money for being a professional pundit and intellectual...

RobSPL said...

It annoys me to no end the when people need a gay person to talk to, they pick up this self hating Conservative, Catholic, Right Winger.

It annoys on to ends, because as a homosexual liberal we are the majority view in the gay community, so seeing this Conservative talk on our behalf irks me, and it makes me mad because he is not representative of gay conservatives either who closeted or insane(goproud/logcabin) but always Conservative in that American definition of it.

Andrew is and I hate to say something "other" a stranger in a strange land who for over 30 years has constantly refused to understand this country and instead tried to jam it into his bizarre revisionist ideology.

Beleck said...

it is always fascinating to see his so called reasoning exposed for the lunacy it is. time and time again the idiocy of his non thinking/pandering to his "wants" rather than accepting the reality of the world around him.

thing is, this is and always "faith" based reality", not thinking in any shape, except to state that X is Y and since i said X is Y, therefore this is true.

Republican faith based lunacy. which has been "validated" by the Media, the Rich and the idiots who want to believe such.

and the rest of us are fated to have to endure such "lunacy" if we live in the same country. as has been the case for the last 40 years or so. Now this "faith based" BS has sowed the "reality" Sullivan so bemoans now. taking off blinders does lead to a different "reality" as Sullivan supposedly sees now.

really a Stranger in a Strange Land, as the above post says.

more likely seeing the Little Red Hen getting its' due for believing in such BS, in my view.

idiots, a cabal of idiots, wanting everyone to agree with them that water is not wet. and so forth.

Duh, Sullivan needs to go home to Britain or Somalia. Gosh, what tripe!

Anonymous said...

I think Andrew Sullivan is often "the gay" on talk shows because conservatives have created the image that only they are serious. Also, conservatives have created the image that the gays are sex-starved drunken party addicts and youth-worshiping narcissists. So, to be taken seriously, they need a serious "the gay", and that means a conservative. Everyone knows a liberal "the gay" will just want to do a hit of extacy and dance to rave music.

There is also the fear that a progressive gay will do something indiscreet and indelicate, like turn to Andrea Mitchel, jam a finger into her chest, and shout, "What the FUCK are you doing having Tony Fucking Perkins on your G~d Damned show and not burying that fucking shit under a pile of burning fucking tires!"

While perhaps known for being polite, the gays are not known for being easily intimidated.

[And along those lines, I really wish I could see a picture from the rest of the set of "Up" when it really *did* sound like Melissa Harris-Perry said, "drives us *fucking* crazy!".]

Mike.K.

Anonymous said...

To Beleck,

I've actually been saying that for a while now. I think the Republicans courted the religious right (the "crazy" wing) for two reasons.

First, it's a group that's pre-conditioned to obey, think, give money, and vote as they are told. This is something they wanted to cultivate in the rest of their base.

Second is just what you said, the "faith based reality". The Republican base has been following the evangelical movement by about 20 years. They are now at the point that this has gone past the fundamentalist wing and is in the broader base. Faith in The Narrative makes you a good person. Faith in The Narrative gives you the blessings of G~d, the party, and the masses. Clinging to Faith in The Narrative in the face of Liberalism or the media or science or fact or truth makes you a good faithful American. They believe their own bs to the degree that instead of now just believing in the party narrative, they think their belief can shape The Narrative, and therefore bend reality. They think that if they get enough people together who will simultaneously believe that science is false, then science will become false.

Just as some atheists say the crazy Christian fundamentalism of constantly "spiritual warfare"'ing against Satan and demons is basically LARP'ing for lazy and religiously ignorant people, the Tea Party is LARP'ing for lazy and politically ignorant people.

"Look! I'm adding a rule addendum that says my Ban Abortion check is only against a DC5, and I have more tea bags tied to my glasses than you, so I'm obviously a higher level Real American than you and so I get to make the fucking rules! Now don't make me get out my d20 Jesus supplement I downloaded from the internet!"

Mike.K.

blackdaug said...

Not completely unrelated..but something I just stumbled upon: An entire book, on line, by a psychologist who has spent his life studying authoritarianism. His name is Bob Altemeyer, and apparently he is good friends with John Dean (yes that John Dean)in fact John Dean based much of his book "Conservatives Without Conscience" on this guys research.
I am only about 30 pages in...but it is really fascinating:

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

It is an actual book in pdf form....


AdHoles said...

The chief problem is that he wants to be a Tory, and is under the misapprehension that the REPUBLICANS are supposed to be the Tories. The DEMOCRATS are the Tories. The Republicans are the BNP.

Beleck said...

the real sadness is this a bunch of intelligent psychopaths/antisocial manipulators who lead and kill to achieve their goals.

totally amoral and asocial. they don't believe in or follow anyone else's morals or beliefs.

they know how to win and use any means necessary. evil triumphs cause good follow and adhere to rules/ society's civil code.

these are mindful purposeful intelligent psychopaths. murderous psychopaths with power to use as tehy see fit.

and the ends always justifies teh mean. just plain black and white. evil genius

Batocchio said...

He actually said that preemptive war is not conservative?!? Can he go back in time and tell the Andrew Sullivan that was not to attack Iraq war skeptics as traitors?

As Digby often says, they believe that conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed.

valdemar said...

“One cannot really be a Catholic and grown up.”

Orwell might have been writing about poor old Sully.

Bitter Scribe said...

But [if Mitt Romney held the same positions on issues related to gay rights as President Obama] the bigots would flee. And without the bigots, there is no Republican majority.

And God knows no one would want THAT to happen.