A little bit of Today in Bobovania, and then I have a few things to say:
Stuck in Lincoln's LandOn Sept. 22, 1862, Abraham Lincoln gathered his cabinet to tell them he was going to issue the Emancipation Proclamation. He said he had made a solemn vow to the Almighty that if God gave him victory at Antietam, Lincoln would issue the decree.Lincoln's colleagues were stunned. They were not used to his basing policy on promises made to the Lord. They asked him to repeat what he'd just said. Lincoln onceded that "this might seem strange," but "God had decided the question in favor of the slaves."I like to think about this episode when I hear militant secularists argue that faithshould be kept out of politics. Like Martin Luther King Jr. a century later, Lincoln seemed to understand that epochal decisions are rarely made in a secular frame of mind....Today, a lot of us are stuck in Lincoln's land. We reject the bland relativism of the militant secularists. We reject the smug ignorance of, say, a Robert Kuttner, who recently argued that the culture war is a contest between enlightened reason and dogmatic absolutism. But neither can we share the conviction of the orthodox believers, like the new pope, who find maximum freedom in obedience to eternal truth. We're a little nervous about the perfectionism that often infects evangelical politics...
The key to Lincoln's approach is that he was mesmerized by religion, but could never shake his skepticism. Politically, he knew that the country needed the evangelicals' moral rigor to counteract the forces of selfishness and subjectivism, but he could never actually be an evangelical himself....As the great historian Allen C. Guelzo argues, Lincoln favored the classical virtue of prudence, which aims at incremental progress and, to borrow a phrase from Lincoln, at making sure that politics doesn't degenerate "into a violent and remorseless revolutionary struggle." Lincoln came to believe in a God who was active in human affairs but who concealed himself....Another is that while the evangelical tradition is deeply consistent with the American creed, sometimes evangelical causes can overflow the banks defined by our founding documents. I believe the social conservatives' attempt to end the judicial filibuster is one of these cases....
Well, it’s heartening to hear Brooks beating a false premise like the bogeyman of “militant secularists” twice in one column, while allowing as how he’s really only “a little nervous” about the politics of Evangelicals. And I must say, hearing BoBo’s public alas-and-alacking about the state of his tortured soul trapped – trapped, I tell’s ya! – in the sad and lonely little ‘taint created by an utterly and despicably false dichotomy is, by turns laughable, despicable and predictable. And it affords one yet another opportunity to see with gamma-ray clarity yet again what a wormy Accomodationist he really is.
The ”funny” part is the vision I get of Brooksie as Jabba the Hutt – BoBo the Hutt – all seventeen tons of him, crying his faux glycerin tears over the complete bogus alternatives he has carved out for himself. Do I continue to glut myself on the radical clerics in my own party that seem, perhaps, once in a while, a trifle, a jot, a soupcon extreme in their honorable pursuit of their religious ends? Or must I starve myself off and die on the thin soup of the “bland relativism of the militant secularists.”
BoBo asks, given these two equipoised and equally distasteful alternatives, whatever shall I do? And we ask how oh how did BoBo the Hutt get so Orca-fat feeding on such empty Straw Men?
The predictable part is BoBo snaking around in the weeds, reductively and absurdly positing the world into two bad camps and then trying to stake out some heroic middle ground where all the reasonable people live. And hoping someone, somewhere will step into this asinine bear-trap.
Sorry, mon petit overpaid and underpower slice of NYT bourgoise headcheese, but no. No, no, no, yet again no and yet again your toxic little opinion need to be fumigated lest some poor child accidentally swallow it and end up at Ontological Poison Control having to get their frontal lobes pumped.
And yet again, New York Times, is this month-old slice of room-temperature trichenosis-laced pork the very best you can off the American public when it comes to incisive thinking? Jesus Haploid Christ. What happened to you, man? I remember when it used to be about the music…and real, actual jour-nal-ism.
Yes, BoBo, the world is divided, but between reasonable people – of all religious persuasions and of none at all – and irrational, superstitious, Armageddon-luvin’, Fundamentalists. The political party who’s ass you oil and lave and snuggle is owned and operated by the latter types, so how about a quick test to see which one of us if chock so full of shit that it’s squirting out of our tear-ducts like feculent Play-Doh Fun Factory logs…and which one of us isn’t?
Name me 15 influential leaders of the Democratic Party that by any reasonable definition fall into this absurd silo you have spun out of whole cloth called “militant secularists.” And not obscure academics, but people who command real electoral power. People who move voters to the polls. People who give platform speeches and show up on the short list of Democratic Leaders when Charlie Rose or George Stefanopoulis are booking guests.
15 Democratic Party leaders, in other words, who are enemies of “People of Faith.”
And while you’re making that list, I’ll name 15 leaders of your party who are intolerant, hate-mongering theocrats. Superstition-touting extremists. Your opinion leaders. The ones who get out the vote for your candidates and without which you cocksucking Cocktail Party Republicans would never win anything.
And also while were at it, exactly how many “militant secularists” think-tanks are there cranking out Democratic policy papers and talking points?
What exactly is the “militant secularists” Progressive equivalent of the 700 Club? Of Bob Jones University? Of Hate Radio? Of Jesus-Hate-Radio? Of Jerry Falwell’s Lynchburg Church? Or hadn’t you noticed that the last two Democratic Presidents could out-quote most any pastor when it came to citing scripture.
Jesus Hammersack Christ, BoBo, even according to a Fox News poll from last year, “Fully 92 percent of Americans say they believe in God, 85 percent in heaven and 82 percent in miracles.” So exactly where is this army of secular immoderation hiding?
Yet again, BoBo The Hutt has pulled a fantasy of a menacing, aggressively secular, God-hostile goon-squad entirely out of his ass in order to pretend that there are two sides to the issue of “Intolerance”, so that he can drag the “middle ground” another thousand miles in the direction of the Middle Ages.
Yes, BoBo, there are people like me who want to keep the public square secular for the same reason that the Chicago Park District may give a permit to use the same space to a bunch of cops on Friday, a Gay's for Genome Research Fun Run on Saturday, and the Church of Mary, Queen of the Universe Pancake breakfast Sunday morning. That’s why it’s called the “Public Square.” If you want a space dedicated solely to one religious point of view or one interpretation of scripture…I believe they call those places “Churches”. And Synagogues, and Ashrams, and Temples.
There did used to be a time when the public square was indeed non-secular; when it was owned and operated by one faith, one dogma, one creed. Those days are usually depicted in wood block illustrations along with the Black Death and The Inquisition: A global, religious totalitarian state that no sane person of any faith would want us to return to.
In other words, Jerry Falwell’s idea of Heaven on Earth. And Pat Robertson. And Bob Jones. And Randall Terry. And Tom DeLay. And Don Wildmont. And James Dobson. And Rick Santorum. And Sam Brownback. And Peggy Noonan. And Alan Keyes. And, Jiminey Christmas BoBo, did’ja ever notice that each and every one of these Heroes of Ignorance and Intolerance are all in the same political party?
So how’s your list coming along anyway…?
Lastly, how dare you conflate Martin Luther King with the theological Lepers that lead your political party? Seriously, how fucking dare you?
The direct spiritual forebears of the likes of Jerry Falwell were preaching pro-slavery, pro-Jim Crow while the forebears of MLK were chattel of those people. Being beaten, raped, murdered and sold at will by those people.
The direct spiritual forebears of the likes of Pat Robertson chanted and stoned the followers of MLK as they tried to exercise their rights to eat and live and learn as free citizens.
The Virginia trial judge in Loving v. Virginia who, like his modern-day brethren, used God to shield intense, inbred bigotry, wrote this about interracial marriage: “"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."
Substitute “gay” for “race” and tell me with a straight face (OK, small pun intended) that any religion that is as fanatically preoccupied with the bedroom habits of consenting adults as Conservative Fundamentism, is not by its very nature an insult to the idea of Civil Rights. Second verse, always the same as the first.
So refresh my memory. When exactly was it that Conservative Evangelicals were slaves?
Or an oppressed minority?
Or lynched by the hundreds?
Or denied the right to vote? Or own property? Or marry whom they chose? Or read and write?
Or were denied access to every other civic institution by law, so that they literally had no other place to rally than in the church?
Are you actually comparing the fake “victimhood” of this NeoConfederate Theological Claptrap that was created out of the violent White Male Privilege backlash against the Civil Rights movement, with Martin Luther King? A multi-billion dollar, tax-exempt empire built on a virulently hateful, defiantly ignorant ideology that has its own media, its own satellites, its own sophisticated technological infrastructure, its own political party, a substantial number of judges and now owns the Federal Fucking Government…with SNCC? With Rosa Parks? With Emmett Till?
Unless you have completely overdosed on the kind of Moral Relativism that your ilk is supposed to abhor, saying that a Segregationist thug in the pulpit preaching hate is somehow comparable to an Honorable man in the pulpit preaching peace is beyond contemptible. Conflating those whose perversion of the Gospel all-but-explicitly advocates the bombing of Women’s Health Clinics with the memory of those who had their churches and children bombed for daring to vote is beyond contemptible.
And doing it on the pages of the NYT?
How do you live with yourself?
73 comments:
Love the NYT rants. Cancelled my subscription over a year ago, but , must admit to going online to look at oped pages for a quick scan. For Bob Herbert. For Paul Krugman. S/times Maureen Dowd --- since the addition of the Safire-replacement-android............well, a quick scan of the column is about all I can do. They have passed beyond the pale. The lying gets more thickly layered and repulsive every week... I guess these are the people , of whom we say,..... "they have no shame." Guess that's what it takes to be a reel gud riter these days. Keep pitching , driftglass...... it is pure sanity that you write.
driftglass,
Just wanted to point out that John Brown was a fanatical Christian who believed that he was fighting for God against slavery when he led his raid on Harper's Ferry. And that while Conservatives are not an oppressed minority nationally, they are oppressed locally, on many of America's campuses. And finally, until modern developments enabled them to develop their own media outlets, they were largely voiceless in the Public Square (remember Nixon's "Silent Majority"). But then, you're probably so hooked into your own viewpoint that I seem like a Conservative to you just for making these remarks.
Yo Scoop- the reason most people don't want to hear them is because they are fucking crazy. The deal with a public forum is that you get shouted down when are spewing nonsense, hate and bullshit. The reason they bought their own satellites, etc. is so they could have a private venue to spew in. Problem is they are muscling in on "public" froums, and my man Driftglass is simply giving them the shoutdown they deserve.
PS- John Brown was right, even if he was somewhat vibrant in his fanaticism.
Woo-hoo! A screed and a troll smack-down!
So, the poor widdle Fundies have been marginalized in American society, with nary a media outlet willing to give them an opportunity to vent their bile? Does Father McLaughlin ring a bell? Bishop Sheen? Kathryn Kuhlman? Aimee Semple McPherson?
Elmer Gantry beame an important character in American letters not because he was so unusual, but because he was emblematic of an enormous (albeit hideous) delusional groundswell in early 20th Century America. (You remember Elmer, doncha? He of whom it was said:
"He had, in fact, got everything from the church and Sunday School, except, perhaps, any longing whatever for decency and kindness and reason."
I'm calling for a movement, targeted at the media in time for this Thanksgiving (and all Thanksgivings thereafter). We need to expand on the age-old and well-distributed meme that "The Pilgrims came to the New World to avoid religious persecution......that was perpetrated against them by Fundamentalist Christians!
Right on Driftie.
As a traditionalist about logic, it's always mystified me how the US can simultaneously be (i) an overwhelmingly Christian nation; (ii) a beacon of Democracy; and (iii) the battered bitch of militant secularist forces. Something has to give. But then, maybe logic is an atheist hysteria.
Roxtar said: "We need to expand on the age-old and well-distributed meme that "The Pilgrims came to the New World to avoid religious persecution......that was perpetrated against them by Fundamentalist Christians!"
I thought they were the fundies, and got kicked out of Europe for being too up-tight, in the 1600's! The folks who landed in Plymouth were not libruls in any sense of the word, hell their descendants perpetuated the Salem Witch trials. See what a little ergot on your rye bread will do?
Driftglass- nice smackdown! And an interesting point you made that some of the TRUE conservative values are indeed valuable. that point has long been lost in our political conversation.
Speaking of gospel, are you guys hip to what's going on in Kansas, the literal AND figurative land of "the flat earth society"?
It's the Scopes trial, redux...
And we all know how much the peckerheads love re-runs of "The Dukes of Hazzard"....:)
us blues:
whatever the truth of their departure, it was sold to us as "religious freedom". to the extent that they were persecuted, it was other fundamentalists (perhaps with different fundamentals) who were doing the persecuting. my point is that the more "religious freedom" they got, the less they were willing to dispense.
of course, spongepants dobson will probably pick up on this and claim that it was libruls who drove them to amuca.
John Brown was right, I agree. And he was condemned by the vast majority Christians North (at first, anyway) and South for the raid at Harper's Ferry. If today's "conservative Christians" had his level of dedication to ending, say, poverty, I might sign up myself.
John Brown at his sentencing:
"This Court acknowledges, too, as I suppose, the validity of the law of God. I see a book kissed, which I suppose to be the Bible, or at least the New Testament, which teaches me that all things whatsoever I would that men should do to me, I should do even so to them. It teaches me, further, to remember them that are in bonds as bound with them. I endeavored to act up to that instruction. I am yet too young to understand that God is any respecter of persons. I believe that to have interfered as I have done, in behalf of His despised poor, I did no wrong, but right. Now, if it is deemed necessary that I should forfeit my life for the furtherance of the ends of justice, and mingle my blood further with the blood of millions in this slave country whose rights are disregarded by wicked, cruel, and unjust enactments, I say, let it be done."
-Marek
I live in the same building of above-storefront apartments with a BushCo supporter, and I would point out that I've noticed in her a deep and fundamental inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality.
Tan,
Yeah. Quite the international embarassment, but looks like the scientists are boycotting, using the rationale that this isn't a debate, this is just spectacle for idiots.
Marek,
Sounds positively...Unitarian :-)
loveandlight,
During the run-up to the election, I was talking about Kerry and this guy leaped into the conversation with, "Oh, sure, vote for that coward...if you want us all the get blown up!"
What does one say to a crazy person?
I did invite him in a very friendly way to set up a brown-bag lunchtime debate on the subject so that if he REALLY felt so strongly about it, he and I could properly cross swords in front of a group and let our assertions stand or fall by testing them out under fire.
He made some funny noises and scuttled away.
It's neither one nor the other that really piss me off: it's that combo platter of arrogance AND stupidity that just makes me want to reach for the cattle prod.
it's that combo platter of arrogance AND stupidity
I believe that would be the "poo-poo" platter.
Exeptional post, and smackdown, today. Thanks.
Thanks, driftglass. That's beautiful stuff there. :)
Drift, thanks for laying the smackethdown to Brooks on this crap.
>It's that combo platter of arrogance AND stupidity that just makes me want to reach for the cattle prod.<
You forgot "insufferable self-righteousness"...
By the way, the latest edition of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Report is out and available online, and it focuses on the mainstream Christian Right's hatred of gays.
In one article here, they mention that Falwell was opposed to civil rights for blacks in the '60s:
Falwell laid into Christian leaders who were actively supporting civil rights, reminding them of a Bible verse that fundamentalists often invoked as evidence that God did not want them to participate in politics: "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh" (II Corinthians 10:13)....
Falwell was plain enough about his views; in 1964, he told a local paper that the Civil Rights Act had been misnamed: "It should be considered civil wrongs rather than civil rights." His "Old Time Gospel Hour" TV program hosted prominent segregationists like Govs. Lester Maddox of Georgia and George Wallace of Alabama.
And now they're trying to link themselves to MLK's cause? I think not. They need to be called out for their dishonesty.
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