Two of the blogosphere's most venerable memes collide.
What Digby Said ™:
... [The Big Time Press] don't consider Greenwald to be quite as loathsome as the "high school drop out" loser Edward Snowden. He is a lawyer after all. But many of them believe he's just as worthy of disdain in his own way. He's not a member of their club.What some will undoubtedly hear this:
Update I: To be clear, I'm not referring to Rick Perlstein in this post, who is anything but a Big Foot Villager. (I hadn't even read his piece when I wrote this.) I'm friends with both Glenn and Rick and I'm sorry to see them at odds. Rick's point is different than the journalists I'm talking about who are questioning Greenwald's credentials and looking for reasons to discredit his work.
Greenwald's most rabid supporters are very difficult to deal with --- I know, I've been in their crosshairs plenty of times myself. And Glenn is, right now, in the middle of a whirlwind, under tremendous pressure. I don't really blame him for being prickly. I'd give anyone who is doing such important work a lot of room in that situation. *
I do worry about Glenn and the Dan Rather effect that Perlstein references, but it will be interesting to see how this plays out --- Glenn is not an institutional figure like Rather was.
I hope these two can come to some terms about this. Perlstein's historical take on this stuff is invaluable and I know he admires Greenwald's work. I admire both of them.
If I remember correctly, Digby's comment section vanished in a puff of techtalk many, many months ago (temporary platform problems? Disqus glitches? I dunno) and whatever the original cause, has never been seen since and I would guess is now gone for good. Which is a real shame. On the other hand, I imagine not having to moderate a mudslide of this kind of thing every day comes as something of a relief.
*(One small quibble: Mr. Greenwald was prickly long before he entered this particular whirlwind.)
33 comments:
I imagine not having to moderate a mudslide of this kind of thing every day comes as something of a relief.
OK, I'll stop calling him Lumber Lung. Even if it WAS a great Slobberbone reference.
Digby says: "But many of them believe he's just as worthy of disdain in his own way. He's not a member of their club."
There is a club.
digby's comments in no way exonerate you for your conduct, your smears, innuendo, and most recently your veritable red-baiting.
For example, you were up to some very evil shit when you said:
one can only conclude that, in Mr. Greenwald's best editorial judgment, it was of vital importance that the public should know the details about how we spy on the Russian government (who, by the way, spy right back at us, because Welcome to Grownup Land!) and of vital importance to time this disclosure so that it landed like a sack of burning dog poo on the White House porch on the eve of negotiations between Russia and the United States. From "The Guardian":
...While it has been widely known the two countries spy on each other, it is rare for either to be caught in the act; the latest disclosures will also be deeply embarrassing for the White House as Obama prepares to meet Vladimir Putin, who succeeded Medvedev as president, in the margins of the G8 summit this week.
The two countries have long complained about the extent of each other's espionage activities, and tit-for-tat expulsions of diplomats are common. A year after Obama met Medvedev, the US claimed it had broken a highly sophisticated spy ring that carried out "deep cover" assignments in the US.
Ten alleged Russian spies living in America were arrested...
As a journalist, Mr. Greenwald is, of course, free to publish pretty much whatever he wants, however he wants.
This is as it should be.
But insofar as Mr. Greenwald has made it abundantly clear that he is in control of every detail of this story, he also is entirely responsible for the public revelation of this particular leak at this particular moment and the reading public should feel free to judge his motives accordingly.
Red-baiting on "national security" is a fucking classic, admittedly, but despite how many accredited progressive morons you rally to your side on these escalating smears against Greenwald, it simply puts your own redemption further out of reach.
You owe Greenwald an apology.
Compound F (uckwit)
NO ONE ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH OWES GREENWALD AN APOLOGY!!! PERIOD.
That he's even mentioned as a "journalist" anywhere is utterly laughable. He's a goddamn hack plain and simple. The Guardian put its credibility on the line "hiring" him to work for them. And, I don't know if he was "hired" or is working for free. But, GG has LONG been an anti-Obama voice REGARDLESS. And THAT puts him in the carrying water for the gopbaggers' shallow end of the blow-up kiddie pool.
And, in Snowjob's recent internet back/forth, Snowjob spoke GG's own words in huge tell when he said that he became upset shortly after the President took office and didn't spend his political capital to change the spying and close gitmo. For one thing Snowjob voted FOR RON PAUL and the political capital whine is GG 100% back then.
You need to get out more and do some fucking homework or something. Dunce chair for YOU.
Oh, and Den Mother Digby..... fuck her. Click ho.
Love, Myrtle June
Yeah, I think Drifty is reaching when he claims that Greenwald is responsible for Snowden's particular brand of information incontinence. That Snowden lacks any sense of boundaries about what secrets should remain secrets shows he's a product of our times, I suppose, but I don't think Glenn has much control over him at this point.
That said, a bomb thrower like Greenwald neither deserves an apology nor I suspect wants one.
Myrtle June...
I want you in a rocker on my front porch!!
Tell that Compound W where to stick that wart!!
Yeah, I think Drifty is reaching when he claims that Greenwald is responsible for Snowden's particular brand of information incontinence.
Yeah, I don't think he claimed that at all.
It's really no surprise that the manifested reaction to the decades-long reign of GOP mouth-breathers is a den reactionary mouth-breathers.
Anon, you echolalic morons couldn't carry Greenwald's journalistic jockstrap. The so-called narratives emanating from your cerebral cortices are fairly well screaming directly through your cerebral nuclei, perhaps directly from hypothalamic rage loci. You should look into elective removal of that particular electrode, insofar as full spectrum motor dominance by the brainstem doesn't make for the prettiest existence.
Compound Mistake
Do you actually think that jumbled monstrosity of a nonsense paragraph will convince anybody you have more than passing acquaintance with an actual vocabulary?
Here is a word for you: non sequitur.
Here is another: verbose
Herding a bunch of multisyllabic neurological nomenclature into a paragraph commenting on a political article lacks a certain..what's the word..context? sense? pretense of sanity?
Did somebody make fun of you for being stupid in person? Is that it, were you mocked for being inarticulate? So now you spend your time on Thesaurus or Wiki just grabbing words at random that you think will make you sound intelligent?
Would you like to be the kind of person who is able to use the word "inarticulate" in conversation?
God, after reading your rant again, I am sorry for having made fun of you in the past....you have some issues that are better dealt with somewhere other than the comment form on a political blog.
In the meantime, here is a neurological term you may wish to acquaint yourself with. Aphasia
Usually, it refers to the lack of ability to articulate anything coherent....yep pretty much fits here.
Compound F, go take up architecture - so you can build a fucking bridge and GET OVER YOURSELF.
Anon,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21644149
Get that electrode removed and read a goddamned book. You have no idea.
PinkPan, How 'bout I make like a tree or breadtruck?
I think the comment section speaks volumes about the quality of the joint.
Reap the whirlwind of ditto-rage, driftglass. You sowed it.
driftglass,
i thought you moderated the comment section....
As to the comments, Haloscan closed up shop. Disqus claimed it could import the old ones, but that has yet to be successful over at Roy Edroso's place, despite many months. (He has new Disqus comments, but none of the old Haloscan ones have come over, alas.) Digby had some sharp commenters, but there are others I don't miss...
The Nonny Mice are not worth arguing with. They exist to ditto, or troll, or whatever they do, without even the accountability of a pseudonym.
"You owe Greenwald an apology"
Really? That's all? Your writing is so over-inflated that you have to think driftglass should be in jail for one reason or other.
Pinkamena Panic said...
Compound F, go take up architecture
Hey now. WE don't want him either. Although there are plenty of architects with similar Terminology Logorrheic Syndrome, I will admit.
Your writing is so over-inflated that you have to think driftglass should be in jail for one reason or other.
Am I supposed to understand that sentence? My "over-inflated" writing causes me think driftglass should be in jail? Jail? The slammer? The Big House? The Fish Tank? Up the river?
Lemme suggest that you're writing is severely, uh, under-inflated and unintelligible. My god, if this is the standard quality of driftglass's feedback it's no wonder his writing has gone off the tracks. It's like a person going deaf and losing auditory feedback to the voice.
I know the trolls won't read this, because it conflicts with the shiney new lefts own "tea party" narrative on this story but...
from Vanity Fair
and for the tweeters..or twitters..
Read it, gnash your teeth, your hero "screwed the pooch". He didn't vette the story with experts other than the source..and the source is no expert....so now he is the story.
Compound Fracture- was your link to "Experimental study of bentonite-soil mixtures as anti-seepage materials of constructed wetlands." meant as a metaphor? If so, maybe you really ARE the genius you seem to THINK you are...But my best guess is that you really ARE the pseudo-intellectual asshole that I think you are.
If DG weren't such a fucking good writer when he isn't hunting his white whale, I don't suppose any intelligent commenters would remain, and the Nonny Mice would eat all the cheese in the place.
This non stop morbid fascination with Greenwald and his opinions from 7 years ago every week will have at least managed to accomplish one positive thing. I've unsubscribed the podcast from my Itunes.
Seriously it's Greewald this and David Brooks that every week... talking about something else the personalities and addressing any serious issues seems to be completely beyond drift's grasp at this stage. Everyone take a freaking drink. I just can't stand getting called an obamabot...
Glenn is so mean to the people he disagrees with... how rude.... tone trolling for the masses. Good riddance
Ooopsy daisy. Sorry about the bentonite thing. That's a different story. The rest stands.
http://www.loni.ucla.edu/twiki/pub/CCB/SIGJC/hong_wei1.pdf
That's the real paper I meant to reference, from one of the world's greatest living neuroanatomists. Even the other greatest wouldn't disagree with that assessment. Swanson separates the adults from the kids.
As for my pseudonym, which causes great snorting amongst the dumber of you, compound F refers to the human stress hormone cortisol, fractionated by Kendall and Hench back in the fifties, amongst the other vertebrate stress hormones, the fractions of which they labeled along the lines of the alphabet, compound B for rats, compound E for cortizone (that you often use to treat inflammation), and compound F for humans and pigs. It's an arcane usage in the industrial pace, but they rightly won a Nobel Prize, and Hench's acceptance speech was quite predictive, tho' he was working on a minute inkling.
So, in this case there was an actual answer to the apparent Rorshach test of my pseudonym, and those who answered in their own distinctive manner showed more of themselves than anyone else. Congrats!
btw, swanson's paper is eminently readable; every intelligent layperson should take a whack at it. It's a beautiful paper.
Love ya, Drifty, but your knee-jerk defense of Obama is embarrassing.
Here's a game: Take all your defenses and excuses for Obama's actions and sit down face-to-face with the whistle-blowers he's trying to imprison. Explain to them why Obama is going after them and not after the bankers whose fraud crashed the world's economy.
The point system of the game is based on how long you can go without taking a shower, crying yourself to sleep, and/ or killing yourself.
Berto
Behold..the aforementioned yet puzzling invisible links..
http://www.vanityfair.com/online/eichenwald/2013/06/prism-isnt-data-mining-NSA-scandal?mbid=social_retweet
and...
http://www.mediaite.com/online/glenn-greenwald-blasts-joy-ann-reid-msnbc-for-blind-acceptance-of-obamas-narrative-on-nsa/
damned NSA making by links invisible...
rabble...rabble..rabble...rabble....
Greenwald is smart enough, committed enough and articulate enough not only to play with the Big Beltway Boys and Girls but knock the stuffing out of them. Matt Taibbi needs some help out there in the spotlight all by his lonesome. But until GG stuffs some cotton in those gigantic, wide-open rabbit ears of his and learns to tell his stories and move to the next one, he's going to get picked on. The bench jockeys will never shut up if they know you can hear them.
"Here's a game: Take all your defenses and excuses for Obama's actions and sit down face-to-face with the whistle-blowers he's trying to imprison. Explain to them why Obama is going after them and not after the bankers whose fraud crashed the world's economy."
Okay...I played the game. He explained it was because they broke the law and released information damaging to the country and were basically too stupid to know what they had done...
and he wasn't going after the second group, because he is not an all powerful omniscient superbeing dictator of some sort....
That was fun, can we play something a little more challenging next? How about tic tac toe?
Anonymous at 1:21 AM,
What does "because they broke the law" supposed to mean in your response?
So because the bankers who committed fraud knew they were crashing the world's economy Obama can't go after them. The only people Obama is powerful enough to go after are the ones who committed crimes but were too stupid to know what they were doing. Got it.
I'd crush Obama in Tic-Tac-Toe. There is no way the POTUS can put three Xs or three Os in a row, since he's not an all powerful omniscient superbeing dictator of some sort.
--------
Greenwald only criticizes the Obama Administration because he hates Obama. Just like those who criticized the Iraq war only did so because they loved Saddam Hussein.
Berto
Shorter driftglass,
Those who criticize Obama's actions just suffer from ODS(Obama Derangement Syndrome).
This site is starting to remind me of the line from the Clash song "Death or Glory".
"I believe in this, and it's been proven by research, that he who fucks nuns will later join the church."
But not the Church Hearings, of course.
Berto
Greenwald is smart enough, committed enough and articulate enough
..and gosh darn it, people LIKE him!
Shorter driftglass,
Those who criticize Obama's actions just suffer from ODS(Obama Derangement Syndrome).
Typically, a Shorter (as created by Daniel Davies and perfected by Elton Beard) actually summarize the post, rather than creating a straw opponent. It takes a little more than typing a short summation of the voices in your head.
Since driftglass has also criticized Obama's actions, is he diagnosing himself with ODS?
Yo, dawgs.
If you don't worship(one p!) Saint Glenneth Greenwaldus, and repeat verbatim what he says, you obviously hate civil liberties, cherish drone strikes, and probably hate you some 'Murrica, too.
SNOWDEN!!!
NSA!!!
DRONEGLASS!!!!!
"...because he is not an all powerful omniscient superbeing dictator of some sort..."
The whistle-blowers are relieved Obama is just blowing smoke and playing to his audience.
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