SAT Question #112: “What do these two flags have in common?”
Mr. Gilliard makes his point(s) with his usual, fulminating panache here. Go and read.
But I also wanted to borrow this image because there is perhaps need for a quick refresher on the history of the American Swastika, and again wonder why some people remain so defiantly ignorant of the shameful past of this strip of cloth?
Is it perhaps the Fundamentalist Madrasses that teach of the Glorious Days of Southron Independence have the same straining-at-gnats-and-swallowing-camels eye for the details of History as they have for Science?
Who knows?
Oh, and speaking of Swallowing Camels, if anyone, anywhere out there genuinely believes – as one of my loyal readers explained it to me – that “The Civil War was about States' rights. Easy to forget, the Confederate flag represents blood, death and loss of generations on any given family tree. To ignore that would be the same as ignoring any human suffering. Each of us personalizes loss...” – please, please make sure that Ken Mehlman opens with that line next time he speaks in front of an African American organization.
Call him, email him, dispatch Night Riders or telegrams...or (if your Chariot happens to Swing Low in that particular way) just nudge him awake, pull out his ball-gag and ear plugs and whisper this brilliant strategy to him -- but insofar as potential GOP tactics to win over African American voters still pique my interest, for the sake of White Republican Baby Jesus, for God’s Sake tell Kenny to explain (in as sloooow and patronizing a tone as possible) how the Confederate Flag is just about ‘umble, Rebel Pride.
Lynchin’? Jim Crow? The Klan? A century of murder and terror enforced by white-robed cowards by night, that wore Sheriff’s uniforms and Judge’s robes by day? White Supremacists getting their asses tattooed, Star-n-Bars on one cheek and Nazi Swastika on the other?
What? You learn alla that nonsense in some ‘a them fancy-dan ”books”?
The Confederate Flag’s All About The Love, Baby!
And if you don’t get that you must be stoopid. Or an Evil Liberal. Or hate America. Or something.
So if one of you could pass the word along to Kenny to stick as closely to that line of argument as possible, this bleeding heart Liberal would be eternally grateful.
Yes, the Civil War was about the State’s Rights. The state’s rights...to keep human beings as property.
To own them and sell them. The breed them and rape them. To work them to death or kill them on a whim, and to build a whole society on their backs and blood.
Funny how y’all always leave out that last little bit, isn’t it? Like you think no one’s going to notice.
And that the Traitor Confederate Government that made war under that banner lived in fully mature fascist states and wanted to keep the spoils of their system. That the Confederacy was America’s Apartheid.
And BTW, how exactly does anyone but a cultist or a professional victim go around bleeding from the same stigmata from a war fought and ended over a Hundred and Forty Years Ago and still have the nerve to call it “personalized” loss?
Lots of Germans lost lots of relatives defending a fascist state. One that ran on murder, terror and slave labor. Under a perverse doctrine of racial superiority based on debased “theology”.
Does any of this sound familiar?
That war ended a mere Sixty Years ago, and yet strangely you do not see a lot of Germans blatting on about the Glorious Reich. And “Heritage”. And how WWII was really all about State’s Rights...I mean “Lebensraum.”
And you do not see them waving the Swastika in their millions, insisting that it’s some poor, harmless, misunderstood symbol of “Pride” that everyone on the face of the Earth but them has just horribly misunderstood.
In fact, it seems the only place one really sees swastikas being waved with gusto these days...is here.
And usually marching in goose-step/lock-step with the Confederate Flag.
But hey, I’m just a poor, dumb liberal, so as Al Smith used to say, "Let's take a look at the record."
(And for the déjà vu afflicted, you are not having an episode: These are comments from me from another venue repurposed to serve YOU the customer better.)
The Confederate Flag went largely out public fashion after the Civil War, reappeared in the 1890’s as the white supremacist movement and its lynching campaign were peaking. It was only then that several, um, Red States redesigned their flags to incorporate it, explicitly to support white supremacist ideology and the terrorism that was used to enforce it.
Time passed, and it slowly went back to the display case, popping up every now and then when the local black population needed to be terrorized.
Until the 1940’s when the Dixiecrats bolted the Democratic party because they loathed Truman and hated the whole idea of Civil Rights for them damned darkies. And quicker than you can say “Strom Thurmond” the Confederate Flag started showing up frequently in public again, along with its fellow travelers: hooded men and burning crosses.
State's Rights Rides Again!
1956 was when Georgia incorporated the Confederate Flag into its state flag: an explicit “Fuck You” to the federal civil rights efforts, and an explicit warning to blacks that they’d better fucking well shut up if they knew what was good for them.
1962 was when South Carolina unfurled the flag. Not 1862: 1962. (And speaking of South Carolina's proud "Heritage" in this context, who will ever forget state senator Arthur Ravenel in early 2000, when he defended flying the American Swastika, by calling the NAACP as the "the National Association of Retarded People." Then apologized to "retarded people" for associating them with the NAACP. Sweet move!)
1963 was when “Segregation Forever!” George Wallace raised flag over the Alabama capitol...on the DAY that Robert Kennedy was visiting in support of Civil Rights.
Wallace should be of particular interest when dealing with “It Warnt Lynchin’, It Were ‘Heritage’.” mouthbreathers, because Wallace started out as, well, not exactly a “moderate”, but not the hellbeast he became.
1958 was when he lost the Alabama governor’s race in John Patterson. Patterson had used his position as Attorney General to get Ken Mehlman’s newest, best-est buddy institution -- the NAACP -- declared an illegal organization in Alabama. He was publicly endorsed by the KKK and he whipped Wallace’s ass easily for the simple reason that Southern Voters Love Racists. The more virulent, the better.
Patterson even said the reason he won was that Wallace was, “soft on the race question.”
Again, nice fucking “Heritage”, y’all got going there!
It was then that Wallace announced, "no other son-of-a-bitch will ever out-nigger me again.” To that end he hired the head of the Alabama Citizens’ Council and leader of an especially violence KKK splinter group as his speechwriter, started screaming “Segregation!” at the top of his lungs and wrapped himself in –
...wait for it...
...wait for it ...
Ok, you guessed it! -- The Confederate Flag.
He also famously said that what was needed to stop integration in Alabama was a “few first-class funerals” and a week later came the bombing of 16th Street Baptist Church.
We all forget at our peril that he was really popular.
He won easily.
He was term-limited, so he ran his goddamned wife, and she won easily.
He ran for President and got nine million votes.
He wasn’t beloved on his merits and didn’t use the Confederate Flag as his personal fucktard-unitard because of some gauzy nostalgia for the good old days.
No, Wallace was a purely evil, calculating, political retrovirus who knew exactly what he was doing, and exactly what the Confederate Flag meant to Southerners. It meant -- and means -- white supremacy, segregation, hate and murder. It meant “Ready, Set, Lynch” whenever any uppity Negroes tried to vote. And it meant the violent overthrow of the Federal government, if necessary, in order to preserve the fascist states over which thugs like Wallace ruled.
Calling is “heritage” is strictly pig lipstick for the cameras. Or, as my ex’s grandma used to say, “You can put your shoes in the oven, but that don’t make ‘em biscuits.”
A “Free Mumia” t-shirt is not a semiotic call to violence with a century-old provenance. Neither is calling Bush a “chimp”, or Liberals "Lie-brals", or, for that matter, “Nuke The Baby Seals For Jesus” bumper stickers.
Hell, I think culottes are a sin against nature (They’re not pants! They’re not shorts! What the fuck ARE THEY?!) but whether or not they make me mad enough to take a swing at someone, that is not what they are designed to do. They are designed to express an opinion...or that you have no idea how bad and dorky those anti-pants look on you.
The Confederate Flag, in the other hand, was specifically intended to signify “Lynch!” and ranting that it’s “heritage” doesn’t make it so, any more than invoking the word “theory” means that Creationism and Evolution both deserve serious attention in a Biology class.
The Stars-and-Bars and the Swastika are a special category. They are always hauled out to signify solidarity with a violently totalitarian ideology and an explicit endorsement of terror and murder as means of enforcing and advancing that ideology.
And not for nothin’, but a word to the wise: if you’re going to make a mad dash for African American voters, maybe this is some shit you really ought to get straight.
97 comments:
You know, it would've made us immeasurably weaker in the long run and doubtless would've changed world history (for better or worse? Who knows?) but I'm not altogether convinced that Abe Lincoln did what was best for America by artificially keeping the south attached to us. In light of current events, that festering swamp south of the Mason/Dixon line may prove to be our albatross.
Once again, Master Driftglass, I bow in respect to your grasp of literate invective. That said ...
I know that our Constitution mandates freedom of expression, but Jesus Christ in Bike Shorts, can't we PLEASE try to get these two hideous symbols of evil banned?
Those poor dumb southern farm boys going to get slaughtered for the rich plantation owners to keep their ill-gotten lifestyle. Will things ever change?
I mean “Liebestraum.”
Are you sure? I think you mean Lebensraum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum
jim,
Thank you for the catch. "Hooked on Phoenics" obviously did NOT word for me :-) I've staffed out the correction to my Pacific Rim guys & it should be up shortly.
jurassicpork,
We have a lot friends down South -- like brother Tanbark -- and they work hard (and always have) to drag their states into the 20th Century. And Lord knows the North has its problems, and twas ever thus.
Having said that, failing to denazify the South after the Civil War was our biggest historical error. It let ideology and theology that are at the root of most of our modern problem survive and mutate.
Failing that, we shoulda taken every dime the Civil War was to have cost, bought every human being out of bondage, and let the South slide into the mosquito-ridden banana-theocracy they have always wanted to be.
I'm automatically excluding the southern liberals I've met online because evolution obviously didn't arbitrarily skip over of them as with the vast majority of their brethern. To wit: Most conservative wackos down there now have an excuse for falling alseep during science because now evolution's being discredited, so they don't have to believe in evolution!
But you can't make me respect the south as a whole, sorry. And, yes, I've lived in more deep southern states than I care to remember, including Mississippi, and I can honestly say that some of the stupidest, most bigoted asswipes I'd ever met in my life were south of the Mason/Dixon line. I'd sooner fuck a rabid weasel to a Neil Young album than set one foot south of that line again.
These yo-yo's with the Confederate battle flags usually have USA flags also,along with crosses,bibles,apple pies and such. I know you hate the rebel flag,I get it. I think it's fairly stigmatized now. It bothers me far more to see all of the Republicans with their flag lapel pins. They are the ones trying to make Old Glory the new fascist symbol. It ain't gonna work much longer. The tide is turning.
"Funny how ya'll always leave out that last bit, isn't it? Like you think no one's gonna notice."
F#CK!!!
slink away slowly........
I too detest the lapel flag worse than a confederate flag, but ban the swastika? How about Nazism, and Fascism, not *symbols*?
I see one here everyday, on my way to work, @ 18 hours by air due west of Rio.
It is a symbol of Buddhism, turned backwards. I saw them all over South Korea.
And, yes, it was about slavery (the Civil War), no doubt, historically traceable by records of debates in D.C. up 'til Ft. Sumner.
But, certainly, MOST southerners fighting the north were NOT slave holders.
And, CON federacy means against Federation, heh?
If THAT truly were the goal, I'd rally behind a symbol of Confederacy, but a new one, perhaps inclusive of our fellow Americans of color.
I'm still a proud Con federate to this day, a Southerner proud of my heritage, that deep dark south: Arlington, Va. Grew up 3 miles from Robert E. Lee's home, watched fireworks over D.C. as a child on the Fourth of July.
My family, in this land since 1586, helped start this nation by having an ancestor that was a Terrorist. (go to goggle, type in The Reprisal, see the word Terrorist applied to my Patriotic ForeFather by his ADMIRERS :<)! He captured HOW many ships in ONE DAY??!!??
My family owned slaves, though not in "The South". On Maryland's Eastern shore. A DuPont duck hunting lodge, now.
Hollywood bs alert: I have a farm diary, a log, my family has kept since 1590. Lists all the slaves born, married, died. None sold.
None beaten, or killed.
They DID do one terrible thing to a slave that wouldn't work, though:
"Set Free"
I'm not being facetious here, it meant that poor person could be caught, and sold in the market, by any white that caught him.
THAT was what led to the John Brown's of the US speaking out, the anti-slavery movement, and rightfully so.
But DON'T forget, without some of those "slave owners" TERRORISING Brits off our land, YOU wouldn't be THERE blogging away.
Mixed baggage we Southerners carry, but a notion of Northerner's moral superiority is laughable.
I was bussed to black school as a child, from my white neighborhood, the school my grandfather, and father and uncles and aunts went to, so EQUALITY could reign. Ahem, huh?
While we would visit family in Detriot suburbs, with virtually every living room picture window sporting a "This Family Will Not Be Bussed" placard.
And, they weren't.
Driftglass...........
I do wish you yankees would quit trying to tell us (southerners) what things mean to us.......................the Stars and Bars does not represent hate in the hearts of all Southerners and I resent hell out of people who paint everything with the broad brush of their own prejudices and ignorance.
I agree with some of your opinions but screaming invictive and a closed mind
puts you in the same category as those you rail against.
P.S. You need to work on your vocabulary and study a bit more history.
Okay,
so let's step back a bit and get a perspective on what Drifty here is saying.
Owning Slaves: BAD.
Being a Dipstick espousing "great" Slaving owning heritage: BAD.
Waving around a banner that has BECOME to mean Slave owning: BAD.
Who can disagree with this?
The modern adaptation of these symbols was to consolidate power and ideology and use them to subjugate a population.
Now, we live in Tomorrowland where we can see the error of our ways.. just like the Germans and just like some of us southerners. (I was born and bred there with over 300 years of heritage ..the good and the bad)
Ignorance is a very important tool in using these symbols and those who are easily swayed by them have a lot of other problems as well.. and keeping a population ignorant, poor, and abused goes a long way in holding their intellect hostage
Thank you mac!
You said what I was trying to say.
Awesome, driftglass. I really had to restrain myself on another discussion board when a member, well-meaning as she may think she is, tried the "Southern Heritage" schtick on the Stars and Bars. I think I'm going to use link to your dense, well-written expose of this thinking as a rebuttal
Considering the Mason Dixon line is WAY up north by Pennsylvania I think not crossing south of it ever again would be sad.
I also think that there has been enough debate about the Stars and Bars that what it means in the hearts of some southerners (with a sense of pride) is not true for everyone.
I'm not all about PC-ing everything. But this one seems like a no brainer. Since the REST of the people (northerners especially) have made it into a symbol for bigotry and racism...why would you want something that has been misinterpreted and defiled in your eyes to represent your culture?
When I see a swastika, I think of Nazi Germany, and all that comes with it. Yes I know that the swastika has been used for thousands of years, all over the planet, as a religious and mystical symbol. But its meaning has become corrupted and stained, in a way that feels irrevocable. I see that flag and know that it meant death for distant relatives who stayed in Europe.
When I see the Stars and Bars, it means slavery and lynchings. It was used by people who kept my Uncle's ancestors as slaves. It was/is used by people whose ideas and feeings have not changed. The meaning is corrupted.
I read that people with different ancestory have different meanings associated with the Stars and Bars, and I respect that. I don't believe that eveyone who lives in the South is a racist. But the symbol has an irrevocable association with one of the worst aspects of US history, a history which reverberates to the present day.
My man driftglass is pointing out that the worst aspects of Confederate attitudes are still alive today in US politics, and are being used by the GOP to keep power. I think the bottom line is that some of us would like to see our culture move beyond this shit and move closer to the ideals espoused by the folks who started this country (and no, they weren't perfect either).
By the way:
The picture you're using actually came from David Neiwert - http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/ - and was taken at a minuteman rally.
When all is said and done I think you could sum up the (neo)Confederacy thusly: It's the land that time and democracy forgot.
Present company excepted, of course...
In 1964, my father was a coach and lead a caravan to a college basketball game in Peoria Illinois. I was 8 yrs. old and in the lead car with some black players, when we stopped at a restaurant. My father went in, talked to the manager and when he came out, we drove around to the back. I was not made aware, until years after, why we had eaten in the kitchen of that restrauant. I had just assumed the black players must have been friends with the help in that kitchen.
That rag in the foreground is not a swastika, it is the mirror image of one. Could have been printed from an upside down transparency. More likely the guy who made it was retarded and got his flag wrong too.
Small nitpicky observation: I believe the Allies outlawed the use of the swastika in Germany after the shooting stopped. Until Hitler soiled the swastika's reputation, it was generally considered a symbol of good luck and was not uncommon on American greeting cards.
Big deep observation in two parts: 1) My great-grandmother died after I was old enough to have conversations with her. She was born before 1900, which means that while the Civil War happened over 150 years ago, I am only two degrees of separation from someone that fought in it. 2) Remember what Patton said? Okay, remember what George C. Scott said while pretending to be Patton? Something about how Americans hate losers. Losing sucks. The South lost the Civil War.
Mythology plays an esoteric and powerful role in this flag issue, and I have yet to see that addressed.
Thanks,
JFrankParnell
The swastika is almost invariably flown by mean people promoting violence and racisim. The Confederate Battle Flag is almost invariably flown by kind people promoting heritage and identity. Big difference.
Disparaging people who display the Rebel Flag is like beating up on people who shave their heads just because they MIGHT be "skinheads."
I recommend a course in basic logic, and a few lessons on American history.
One thing about the swastika as a positive magick talisman: the swastika so used was turned in the opposite direction from the Nazi swastika (and it was also positioned so that its vertical bars were straight up and down and its horizontal bars straight side to side). The swastika used by the Nazis is a reverse/inverse-type black magick talisman much like an inverted Christian or Egyptian Ankh Cross or the inverted pentagram which has become the universal symbol of Satan-worship and evil sorcery.
The upright Egyptian Ankh Cross is a symbol of life triumphant, and so it makes sense to me that American society as it currently exists, with its worship of money, status, and power over all other things, is perfectly symbolized by an inverted Ankh Cross, which symbolizes the triumph of death, hate, and the ego.
As someone born in North Carolina and raised in Tennessee, I see that flag on daily basis and know that not a single person displaying it could define what "Southern Heritage" actually means. (A friend born in Tennessee, now living in South Carolina, puts it well: "Heritage, not Hate" is a cover for old white men who like to say "junglebunny" in the privacy of their own homes.) But what the hell is "Southern Heritage?" The only thing I can think of that defines the South differently than the rest of the country and can best be symbolized by the Confederate battle flag (formerly the state flag of Virginia) is that the South seceded and fought a war over the right to keep slaves. Nothing more, nothing less. Not even slavery was an issue that separated southern states from northern states; just the fact that the southern states were willing to kill and to die to save that peculiar institution.
Old liberal: you can decide that the Confederate flag means a land of pixies and stardust in your own mind, but that doesn't change what it means in reality, what it means to every thinking person whose mind isn't clouded by something born of illogic and stubbornness. And what mac said was not what you were trying to say; you said, fairly clearly, that you refuse to let go of a symbol of oppression even in the face of knowing what it means, what it logically and realistically has to mean because there is no other idea it can symbolize. And the reason I know that's what you said, when I read between the lines, is that as a southerner, when I read opinions like those of Driftglass and others, I feel no enmity, no need to marginalize the opinion by claiming "broad brush" and "closed-mindedness" because I harbor no pride in that worthless flag and no need to defend it. I know what that flag means, what it can only mean and what it will only mean.
Great work, Drifter.
@rockstar: Uh, I'm sorry your upbringing was so miserable.
@everyone else: Just saying the Confederate flag is a symbol of hatred doesn't make it so. What does the cross signify? Bloodthirsty crusaders?
As usual, Skidoo is on the mark. The link to Coski and the Museum of the Confederacy covers the flag and its history and interpretive meanings. It's a thoughtful piece for anyone who wants to step away from the keyboard and really learn about this in depth.
Ski is an awesome writer, a history fanatic and a regular listener of NPR shows and interviews. What more could a Southern bashing, white-hating poorly educated website owner want from a reader?
Elsewise Ski, catch you on the other sites and thanks for logging in here to wade through the doo. This guy made a huge mistake by calling me a loyal reader (although thanks for using my excerpt). I hit "next blog" on the magic button up on the right, and this site made its way, all bloody hands and ferocious words and screeches of equality for anything that he *deems *worthy of equality. (*Whitefolk need not apply.)
Finally, the reader who said you need a dictionary was half right. You also need an editor to trim this stuff down. And a psychiatrist to figure out where all your hate is from.
Ironic thing is, Brian Miller got it right when he used the word dense to describe your writing. Sadly apropos.
In Virginia, they still teach VA history to ALL their students. Guess who the heroes are? I wonder how many men named Robert Lee Somethingorother there are in the South today.
skidoo: the cross symbolizes a 2000-year old religion that has been represented by many, many different people in many, many different ways over the course of two millenia. Some great, some good, some bad, some horrible. The "Stars and Bars" is the battle flag of the army of an insurrection, the battle flag of people willing to kill and die to protect slavery. Nothing more, nothing less. Obtuse, thy name is skidoo.
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CaliforniaLoanRate.com
We will work with you to develop a plan that best serve your particular needs. We will then negotiate with your lender to incorporate any changes that are needed to make the plan acceptable both to you and to your lender. Keeping you in your home is advantageous to the lender. Our job is to help them appreciate that advantage.
SHORT SALES MAY SELL YOU SHORT
You may have been told that a short sale is your only course of action. What you may not have been told is that you may be dealing with the consequences of that action for many years.
DEADLINE SENSITIVITY
We understand that you may be facing immediate deadlines and that any delay can mean a loss of meaningful options for relief.
BEYOND BANKRUPTCY
Though we are happy to assist you with bankruptcy, should that be necessary, we believe it is an option that is avoidable more often than people realize.
TYPICAL RESTUCTURING PLANS
Restructuring plans may include:
Adding delinquent payments and any foreclosure fees to the back end of the loan. This may include a permanent reduction in your interest rate.
Forbearance plans may be used to temporarily halt the foreclosure process for up to four years while you make payments to become current with the lender.
GOALS OF NEGOTIATION WITH YOUR LENDER
In our negotiations with your lender we are seeking to lower your payments, lower the interest rate, mitigate any negative impact on your credit rating, and keep your home from going into foreclosure. The lender benefits by continuing to receive payments on the mortgage, and saving on the costs that would be incurred in a foreclosure.
WHAT WE NEED FROM YOU
We will need to document your income and expenses for the last two years. Documentation will include pay stubbs, tax returns, bank statements and property tax bills, and all of the paperwork associated with your mortgage. We will need copies of your bills to document your financial situation and the factors that led to your falling behind. Please provide any other letters or notices that demonstrate that you faced a reduction in your income or higher than expected expenses.
TELLING YOUR STORY
We will ask you to prepare a draft letter that explains in your own words what factors have led to your need for a modification from the lender. It is important that you author this letter, and that it is not generic. Please include the details that bring to life the financial difficulties that you have faced. If you feel that you were not properly and fully informed regarding the terms of your loan, please describe the process by which you came to sign the loan papers and what your understanding of the terms of your loan was at that time.
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