These
Are not
Synonymous
So please stop campaigning...
- ...for your third term.
- ...for a proper second term to make up for the one the GOP stole from you.
- ..to show em! To show 'em all!
You're spoiling it for everyone else.
Kindly sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up, quit getting drunk on someone else's cork, and let the Junior Senator from the great state of New York run on her own dime.
That is all.
30 comments:
Whoops. I think our own Driftglass is getting spun dizzy.
Over at Time Magazine's Swampland blog uber-commenter Stuart Zechman has the right of this. He writes, in the thread that follows a particular Karen Tumulty post:
****************
I'm watching Bill Clinton campaign for HRC on C-SPAN now...I had no idea he was this effective.
Now all of this "Bill should stop campaigning for Hillary" stuff makes sense.
It's unfair to the other candidates--he's phenomenal at this. I didn't understand that he was better than Barack Obama at talking to people about what they're concerned about. Obama is an extremely gifted orator, but Bill Clinton is doing something else entirely, like a talking/listening tour. He's brilliant; his timing, his inflection, his connection to the audience, his relative spontaneity, his skill with language, it's amazing.
What's up with this, Karen?
I would never have known how good this guy is from all of the coverage. Now I understand why he's snapped at CNN assholes a few times after these events. I had assumed it was just attack after attack after attack on Obama--it's nothing of the sort. He's just talking about how Hillary won re-election in upstate New York, veteran's issues, the economy etc. He's great. She's lucky as hell to have him speaking on her behalf. No wonder the Obama campaign is working so hard to cast this as unfair, and to focus the media on getting responses to whatever can be described as an "attack". Bill Clinton isn't a liability in any way, unless he can be turned into one.
Now it makes sense. I didn't appreciate how poorly (again) the real story was being mis-reported.
Karen:
Am I right? Is Bill Clinton an otherwise excellent campaign asset for Hillary's retail politics? Is the Obama campaign doing a decent job of marginalizing Bill Clinton using the media to focus on "negatives"?
*************
At 0:33 of this YouTube clip, Bill Clinton explains what's happening.
From a second Swampland thread, here's another Stuart Zechman comment that's worth reading.
Look, I'm a dyed in the wool Edwards supporter and very disappointed that we might have to settle for Hillary Clinton as our nominee. That said, it's pretty clear the corporate media is manufacturing this current "Bill Clinton talks too much and says all the wrong things" controversy.
Don't fall for it.
I get tickled shitless watching him get so pissy and up in the press'es grille.
Thats all I like about it though.
Waaaait a New York minit. WHO'S drinkin' the Kool-Aid around here, cmike?
Maybe I just read this post one. word. at. a. time. or sumpin, but I think this post (and correct me if I'm wrong) is not about whether Bill is an effective campaigner or not (he is, duh) but whether his motives are less about his wife, his party, and his country, as about his own ego.
But as I said, I just read the post after an extraordinarily busy afternoon and I may be completely daft.
Check this out. Watch the video.
I'm with you,Drifty. It doesn't matter how well Bill campaigns anymore. It's not his race. Everyone out in the boonies is building it up as a major reason why Hillary must not be president:
1. Bill is the Puppet master and Hillary is the puppet. If she should win the presidency, he will have a third term
2. Hillary is actually in charge, but she can't get Bill under control, which is as bad in its own way.
As the campaign is shaping up, it seems the only way Hilary can lose is if Bill keeps pissing the non-committeds and Republican swing vote off.
blue gal,
I'm not quite getting your point. You concede that Bill Clinton is campaigning effectively for his wife. Yet, you are concerned he might not be doing so for the right reason which would be a selfless desire to serve his wife, the Democratic Party and/or his country.
"In the final analysis, why does anyone do anything?" is one of those perennial questions no one should waste their time on unless; they're taking a cosmology and philosophy for jocks final; they can't choose another question; and the answer they leave is going to count for 10% or more of their grade for the semester.
I think this is another Bread and Circuses moment designed to distract.
After the South Carolina Democratic Debate, I had the overwhelming urge to tell both Clintons and Barack Obama to STFU.
Listening to Obama parse his denials and overexplain everything -- from admiring Ronnie Alzheimer's Rayguns to blah-blah-blahing away his "insignificant" Rezko Slumlord/Racketeer work (and does Barack really think no one is going to pull the $168K he took from Rezko et. al outta the bag when Rezko's trial starts in February??) -- creeped me out. It smells like whining, not defense against unfair attacks.
Now we're parsing Bill Clinton on his apparent dry drunk rampages to "defend the little woman." Hah! STFU, Bill.
There is just enough vengeance mojo in both blabberers -- the nice young Black fellow pushing back against white snipers; Billy the Willy slapping bonehead media bobbleheads around -- just enough to keep us entertained.
But, at the end of the day or at the end bell of this dreadful election cycle, how much more do we know about our prospects for First World Club universal health care with either one? (Hillary: Zip; Barack: Zip) How much more do we know about either one reversing our feudal serfdom relationship to corporatist lords and masters? (Since you gots to dance with them who bought you, don't look to Clinton, the first woman prez, nor Obama, the first Black prez. Both are bought and paid for.)
This is just a beery piss fight staged in the center of the coliseum to keep us distracted from the stuff that is really killing us. And if either poseur gladiatrix/gladiator gets the Dem nomination, then the lion wins.
"Hillary or Obama in 2008 Cuz Bush Needs a Third Term"
More than fair Driftglass. I'd have been happy to never have heard a peep from the clinton III team in this election.
Bill did cross over into some other mode and really ..... oh well, I've gotten in enough trouble for one day. Won't carry on so about clinton II here.
Excellent post! :-)
somebody get that guy an intern, keep him busy.
Uhhhh...CMike, I'm an Edwards supporter too, but if Bill is so effective, why did Hillary just get the living shit kicked out of her in South Cackalack?
Actually, it's a rhetorical question. I already know the answer:
She's trying to pull this crap of letting bubba do her scutwork, while she stays "above the fray".
I grew up here, and I promise you, there are enough stars and bars peckerheads left, that Bill knew EXACTLY what he was doing when he called Obama an "eloquent, youthful, Afro-American".
That was pure dog-whistle racism; and trust me, black people in South Carolina have VERY keen ears for suchlike. :o)
Also, when Hillary's polling showed that she was in for an ass-whipping, and she bailed for Arizona, leaving Bill to tote the hod for her, that didn't sit well with too many sandlapper dems of any color.
As someone who believes that Hillary Clinton is the only politician in America who can keep the white house in republican hands and return both houses of congress to them this November, I can only hope that she slips Bill's leash, for him to go after Obama again, in Florida, and on Super Tuesday.
A couple more rounds of big dog showing us how outraged he is that the coronation express for his wife (and he) has been derailed, and I'll breathe easier about the worrisome prospect of us having a candidate against whom the republicans won't have to discuss their issue-turds at all, for the simple reason that, in the general, they can make Hillary the issue. The ONLY issue.
In other news, Al Gore has to be enjoying this situation, in which he can, with the wave of his endorsement wand, come out for Obama, and snatch the Hillary life-preserver away from the goopers, thereby rendering those of them running for their political lives this year into a MUCH more agreeable state to us all...to the point that the moment Hil withdraws, I've got twenty bucks that says the Goldwater Swat team will quietly start recruiting, for the search and destroy operation against Cheyney, first (for "health reasons") and then goatboy.
BTW, I think that Dick Lugar has a fair chance of becoming the next president, by Senate appointment, if only for a short time. :o)
Yeah right Tanbark,
If Bill Clinton had gone abroad on a world tour and Hillary had campaigned in South Carolina through primary day the results would have been significantly different.
It is abundantly clear that General Electric wants Barack Obama to win the Democratic nomination. I guess the conglomerate is suffering pangs of conscience and wants to end this era of greed. Corporations are persons too you know.
Goldwater swat team, Dick Luger? I guess that makes as much sense as the idea that Iowa and South Carolina are trend setters for New York and California.
"Kindly sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up, quit getting drunk on someone else's cork, and let the Junior Senator from the great state of New York run on her own dime."
I'm with you on this, DG. But I do agree with the commenter upthread who noted that it is pretty fucking enjoyable to see Bill Clinton exhibit some fucking sack. Too bad it's starting about 15 years too late.
If, by "signifigantly" different, you mean, she would have won, then you're right.
She aint gonna win in ANY red state. Conservatives across the board and a ton of independents will get out of their death beds and crawl on bleeding stumps to the polls to vote against her.
If she makes it to the general, she'll be worth 20 percentage points to the republicans, and St. John or Willard will eat her alive with their three word campaign speeches: "Hillary and Bill".
But bubba cost her about 12-15 points down here.
Keith Olberman:
"A thunderous rout"... which is what it was, and team Clinton can spin it anyway they want to, but it was a blow to the coronation process.
I voted for Bill, twice. And glad to do it, but Drift is spot-on about this being some kind of ego-viagra for him. And it's a totally different political situation today. His rants against Obama, and the press, left her holding a bag of shit down here, and if you think differently, you need to climb back on the turnip truck.
Oh. Speaking as a loyal Edwards man, General Electric had jackshit to do with that outcome last night. That was just a lot of good democrats who happen to feel that the candidate they support will do the best job of salvaging something from 7 years of idiocy, arrogance, and greed.
Deal with it.
generally agree with Tanbark...BUT
"General Electric had jackshit to do with that outcome last night"
The korporate media already decided that Edwards will not get the nomination. Now they're going full bore after Hillary.
I agree with that, GayVet. The corporate media wants nothing to do with an Edwards candidacy, but Obama didn't flay the ass off BOTH the Clinton's because GE has directed them to push John to the back of the bus; that happened because a lot of people are buying Obama's message of change, (even if, unlike Edwards, he's soft on the specifics) and because a shitload of rank-and-file democrats are sick and tired of the Clinton's attitude of their entitlement to political power, especially, as regards Hillary's sucking up to the right, as she shows her political "savvy" by chasing conservative votes that simply do not exist for her.
Tanbark--I will vote for whichever of the remaining three Democrats is nominated over any Elephascist, but what makes you think this country is still not full of "Stars And Bars peckerheads" who will "get out of their deathbeds and crawl on bleeding stumps to the polls" to vote against an African-American? :(
Now, if Ron Paul would run an independent or third-party candidacy and split the racist vote with the official Elephascist candidate, Obama would have a real chance. :)
Anonymous at 9:06 pm,
Please come out of the shadows and take a bow.
Standing and applauding,
BABert
Bill. Let me explain. Barak Obama is an intelligent, well-spoken, and reasonably handsome man. He's not the perfect candidate; none of them are, but he hasn't been going full-tilt soixante-neuf with the warbots, as Hillary was unquestionably doing, until the pre-midterm polls helped her find her inner anti-war self.
And the country is not full of peckerheads. Sadly, most of them reside in the south. And in most of the rest of the country they are in a distinct minority, so that most of the time, they can't decide the outcome of a state's voting by themselves.
(BTW; Obama got a quarter of the white votes cast yesterday. Despite feeling for John Edwards, I was proud to be a sandlapper. :o) )
Anyway, where the peckerheads ARE in the majority, I promise you, they are not 1/4 as exercised, and infuriated, by the prospect of Barak Obama's political success, as they are by Hillary's potential success. (Along with their piss-off about the possibility of Bill Clinton getting back into the white house via the back door.)
Most of the time, you're politically savvy ( :o) ) Why am I having to explain this to you, of all people?
Also, in your question, you left out the independents, and a chunk of the democratic center, too. There are an ass of those people who will not vote for Clinton.
But, since youi're defending her, let me ask you:
Do you think that flagburning should be a federal crime?
Do you think that Obama's "too far left" because, years ago, he spoke out against capital punishment, and because (Hillary also says) he's for "socialized medicine"?
Those charges that she levelled at him a few weeks ago, aren't dog-whistles; they are, straight-up, a couple of the more cherished pieces of republican shitspeak...and for Hillary Clinton to parrot them was shameful, to put it mildly.
At the same time, those of us who post the facts about her track record get pilloried by her supporters on the progressive blogs, for using "republican talking points", which is a wondrous example of double-think.
Speaking of progressive blogs, you do know, don't you, that she gets swamped in all of the progressive straw polls? Jane Hamsher, on FDL, made the mistake of taking a straw-vote there, and with 2309 people voting, rather astoundingly, the top four shook out like this:
Edwards--998 votes, or, 43%
Obama--289 votes, or 13%
Kucinich--247 votes, or 11%
and taadaaa;
Clinton--236 votes, or 10 percent.
It was a shock. Jane is a bright, funny, and couragous lady, and now, she's bending over backwards to be fair to all the candidates, but that ended the straw-vote taking on FDL. :o)
Pretty much the same story, with Digby, whom, in my book, USED to be only a step behind the dude whose hospitality we currently enjoy.
I asked her, a few times, over the couple of months I've been posting there, to take a poll of HER crowd.
Not a peep.
And last week on Hullabaloo, some of us got into Hillary's track record, very much fact-based, with links and all, and it triggered a pretty good pissfight with the Hillary supporters. We've ALL seen a lot worse, and no one was inviting anyone to meet in the parking lot, or figuratively waving .357's, but Digby shut it down, and now it's just she and a few guest bloggers, venting, with no discussion of any kind.
My point in bringing this up, is that no one has to tolerate mindless vitriol, but that wasn't happening. The problem is that some of the bloggers were going along swimmingly, with never a discouraging word, and when the primaries kicked in, and we started taking good, hard, looks at the candidates, and a lot of good progressives started pointing out some of the realities and negatives of some of them, most notably Hillary, it frightened the bloggers who thought the coronation process for Clinton was a done deal. The "unity" word, which WAS a dog-whistle, on Clinton's behalf, was wheeled out like a Gatling gun. Happily enough, it didn't work, and we got on with the bidness of peeling off the leaves of the artichoke to see what was underneath.
With Clinton, as I've linked to, the pith wasn't pretty. She voted to authorize the shitmire, and has never troubled herself to unequivocally repudiate that vote, as has John Edwards, numerous time, (However, watching her farting and tap-dancing around it IS entertaining...) She graced that Fauxnews 10th anniversary birthday bash; she let Rupert Murdoch hold a fundraiser for her; she's taken a pretty good lick of money from AIPAC; she supported the Kyle-Lieberman amendment, which was nothing but a good quaff of the same bullshit-and-koolaid that bush used to drag us into clusterfuck #1, as he was attempting to gin up clusterfuck #2in which to enfold #1.
Clearly, the coronation process is thouroughly derailed; Clinton has to get out of the limo and get her hands dirty (Bill, as we saw yesterday, can't do it for her) and the sweetness-and-light loving bloggers are having to make some adjustments to it, including, but not limited to, hosting the kind of discussion that you and I are having right now. :o)
Why, it's almost as if we were talking about a democratic primary season. :o) :o) :o)
In case there's any confusion on the part of any of Drift's new readers, he is most definitely NOT oer-muckle interested in sweetness and light. :o)
BABert wrote:
Anonymous at 9:06 pm,
Please come out of the shadows and take a bow.
Standing and applauding,
BABert
4:01 PM
Oh, gosh. C'est moi. Thanx. But, you know, I'm starting to get "disinvited" to stuff -- online and offline -- for this take on our Roman Bread and Circuses style of Electile Dysfunction 2008.
tanbark above has some pearls on what's going down at FireDogLake and Digby's place. AS IN: The Rabid Dogs -- All Hillary or All Obama -- get to go 52,000 rounds; the rest of us saying "Wait just a fracking nanosecond" get ignored or Moderator Deleted. Not exactly a model of Netroots Democracy.
I started working on a Giant Cold Cock Theory (of the wing-nut media and the corporate overlords) to explain these gladiator set-ups. Even told Russ Feingold (who publicly pissed on Edwards but still wanted more money from me for his Progressive Patriots Fund) to shit in his fist unless he was willing to explain the suspected Cold Cock motive to me. Otherwise, Russ is just farting in the hurricane. :)
If I get any answers, I'll post it on Driftglass. Cuz this is the only place right now where commenters can "go off message." Whatever the hell that is.
Big shit-eatin' grin fer anonymous.
Bullshit is bullshit, no matter which bovine it emanates from.
And, just for the record, I am the father of a daughter and three granddaughters. And I don't believe that ONE of the people shreiking "misogynist!" at me on FDL or Digby's, for posting things like this little gem about Hillary:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/09/politics/main1600694.shtml
can point to a single important "women's issue" on which I don't come down on the support side.
Pro-choice, job-security for pregnancy leave, equal-pay legislation, government-funded community daycare centers...boy, am I in favor of THAT, and I know RIGHT where we can get $3 billion a week to pay for it. :o)
But, as I just posted on FDL, I am not interested in awarding Hillary (and, undeniably, now...) Bill, the democratic nomination as ass-salve for the wounds they've received from; ahem...the same peole whom Hillary was schmoozing with when she figuratively sang "Happy Birthday" to Bill O'Reilly and FauxNews a year and a half ago, at their big birthday bash.
So. Full steam ahead, to the democratic tsunami that is ours by right, and which I firmly believe we will have, if we're not stupid enough to nominate the one candidate of whom, if he gets to see her making her acceptance speech in Denver, Karl Rove will dance naked on the coffee table.
Actually, Tanbark, I would prefer Edwards, not HRC, but again, I will vote for any of the 3 in November over any Elephascist.
However, I learned a series of bitter lessons beginning in November 1980, all of which add up to the painful reality that a majority of my fellow non-elite white citizens are too mean and/or stupid to know what is good for them, which means that democracy, at least in THIS country, is FUBAR.
I wish I had some realistic, practical means of emigrating and living in a civilized, rational, humane country, but I lack that and will never have it.
I'm a contrary sort, and one of the things that repels me about Obama is what attracts so many other people to him: his gift for oratory. I don't trust well-spoken people. Ronald Asshole Reagan was well-spoken, and so was Slick Willy Sellout Clinton.
Also, I distrust that he speaks about "bipartisanship". You can't engage in bipartisanship with people who define "bipartisanship" as "date rape". I do not want to hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" with the pig people. [h/t Drifty] I want to schedule the fucking show trials and roll the fucking tumbrils. I want to burn down the foul temple of Mammon called "plutocracy" and piss on its ashes.
Now this is my kinda bar :-)
driftglass said...
Now this is my kinda bar :-)
12:51 AM
Huzzah! Bar keep? Three rounds of boiler makers for the stevedore crowd here!!
And iffen you can't mix your poisons, then take it to the parking lot, Eagles Breath.
The fisticuffs stay INSIDE.
Drift: A piece of Cackalackese:
"Grinnin' like a possum eating shit out of a hairbrush." :o)
Set 'em up, Bill. :o)
I verily understand your wariness of the kind of vile impulses that can be drudged (pun intended) up out of the depths of our fellow 'murkans, but we are capable of better.
Much better, and this time, with the help (as Drift mercilessly points out) of goatboy's short, bloodless, and oh-so-successful petro-merit-badge expedition, and with the american economy inflated to about the PSI of a roadkill raccoon in the heat and humidity of coastal South Carolina in August, and vulnerable to the slightest prick (most notably, the one in the white house) well, I smell BIIIG water, after the long, hot, cattle-drive up from the ranch at Crawford. :o)
I believe we can sell this beef to the people and "make" enough to outbid those fucking lobbyists sitting in the Capitol rotunda, writing out the Blackwater bids for their "contractors" on their laptops.
I, too, would hold my nose and vote for Clinton, but if all goes well, that is, CONTINUES to go well, I won't have to do it, while weeping in bitter frustration as I do it. :o)
Tanbark, you have more faith in white USAmericans than I do [I am a U. S. paleface myself, in case Drifty has any new readers].
I can't forget that starting in 1980, they have consistently rejected reality in favor of illusion. Why should I assume they will quit doing that now?
Because, in 1980, they did not have the incentive of being forced to admit that george bush and the republican party have dragged us into the worst, and most costly, foreign-policy fuckup since Vietnam. And, it's not unfair to say that it will probably be worse than Vietnam, despite the (so far) large differences in the casualties of the two clusterfucks.
When the reality check of americans facing the truth about Vietnam kicked in, we could leave and, chalk up one agrarian Marxist regime which was no threat to anyone, except the bloodiest of our allies who got caught in the collapse and couldn't get out.
Oh. AND, of course, the barbaric Khmer Rouge, whom the Vietnamese routed and ran back into the jungle.
In Iraq, no such tidy ending is going to be possible. Bush's folly is going to cause problems, big problems, for decades, and we're at the point that even the peckerheads are beginning to face up to that.
And don't forget the economy. Bush and the warbots did not have a fucking CLUE that, 5 years after they pulled the trigger, Iraq would be costing us $3 billion dollars a week.
I fully expect Obama, if things continue as they are, to be pointing out that gas is nearly twice the cost of what it was, when Bill Clinton left office, and then, he should ask how many people in the audience have enjoyed a doubling of their incomes?
Your concerns about latent racism are exaggerated. We have made some good strides, in national consciousness on that. There needs to be more, but Jim Crow is on life support, and very few americans are interested in donating organs to keep him alive.
Istead, they're worried about their jobs, the cost of living, and the cost, in blood and money, of the chaos-theory petrie-dish from which bushCo has profited so handsomely.
I think and hope, that by the time Barack Obama gets done with whichever of Team-Troll they put up, the election will be a yardstick for just how badly one party can run. And race will have very little to do with it.
"Your concerns about latent racism are exaggerated."
May Miss Haruhi grant that you will be correct, but nearly 45 years of bitter experience have taught me there is no such thing as being too pessimistic. :(
IvoryBill: (I still think that's one of the coolest monikers I've seen on the net. :o)
I'll shout you a beer, electronically speaking, on victory night, this November. :o)
(Again, as long as we don't nominate the republican lifeboat...)
I didn't see one comment on here why Obama should be President. A black man running for President on hope with no plan or experience on how to do the job and using race baiting to get there. Maybe if everyone but the candidates sat down and shut up including Oprah, Michelle Obama, Ted Kennedy who's endorsement I would pay to NOT get-he's a corrupt, immoral bastard-then we would see more of what we saw in the California debate. Republican ass licking Obama getting his clock cleaned by Hillary Clinton. He will NEVER beat a Republican in an GE. So keep on supporting him and we'll have more of the same as we have the last 7 years with Mr. Cowboy-I'm the Decider. Or maybe you like the country being trillions of dollars in debt, no jobs, no economy, an endless, senseless war, the middle class getting their teeth kicked in and no health insurance. If that is the case, then we have a bunch of stupid ass people in this country which I have suspected all along for many years anyway.
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