Monday, December 05, 2016

Today In Both Sides Do It: Van Jones

From Mediaite:
Elitism Makes Democrats ‘Disrespectful’: Van Jones Talks Post-Election Unity

“A lot of liberals think that all of Trump voters are part of the alt-right, neo-Nazi camp, which is not true,” Jones said. He explained that while many Trump voters were “not delighted” by some of Trump’s rhetoric, they had “other hurts” that compelled them to vote for the mogul over the former Secretary of State.

Jones moved on to say that both major political parties have blind spots. Democrats, he said, can be elitist and ignore middle-American “red state voters.” He stated that many liberals think conservatives are dumb, which “makes that party disrespectful.”

The Republicans’ blind spot is racial, said Jones. He explained that the party ignores the issues of people of color by promoting the idea of “color-blind meritocracy.”
The Beltway appeasement dollar remains the most reliable Beltway dollar of all.


trgahan said...

" promoting the idea of “color-blind meritocracy.”"

Hahahahaha. Funniest right wing lie I have read in awhile.

Obama's (actual) life is a prime example of success through merit....and Republicans (voters and elected officials) HATED him so much for it. They had to make up a fake backstory in order not to acknowledge that one of THOSE could rose so high above and was so much smarter than them.

Adding, another both sider-ist bullshit analysis designed to white wash the Trump vote. Funny how since the election the Beltway has ignored every vote Hillary got, the passed referenda that raised minimum wages and said fuck you to charter schools, or where Republicans lost.

D. said...

...which of course is where it should have ended, but the '50s insisted on the coda.

It is true that Not All Trump Voters/conservatives are stupid and/or racist, but a great majority of the ones encountered on-line are and have been, usually at top volume. And they've tainted the rest.

As for me, I'd rather be thought an elitist than be thought stupid or racist. At least I don't believe fake news about pizza eateries.

duquesnepdx said...

Voting for a racist/homophobic/xenophobic/misogynist platform means you endorse the platform. And with more and more evidence each day that it was racism not "economic insecurity" that was the tipping point for the average fascist oompa loompa voter, I'm going to stick with "fuck those racist/homophobic/xenophobic/misogynist bastards" as my default setting.

who? said...

An economic view that puts the blame for Clinton's loss on the Democratic Party by Richard Wolff:

bowtiejack said...


You left out psychopath and
I'm not being pejorative or kidding.

I ran Robert Hare's PPL-R Checklist on him (it's the gold standard for ID-ing psychopaths - you can google it).
Max score is 40, anything over 30 is a psychopath. Trump CLEARLY scores in at least the low 30's.

Wendy said...

As a blue state "elitist" whose tax dollars are going to support the red states, I'm beginning to think I have the right to judge them exactly they way they judge other people on welfare.

bluicebank said...

"He stated that many liberals think conservatives are dumb, which 'makes that party disrespectful.'”

I've read SOME Liberals saying we should be respectful toward our fellow citizens who voted for Trump. That we should stop unfriending them on FB, stop calling them names, stop heaving shit upon their pointy little fucking heads. Well God bless those Liberals, but they're wrong.

To quote from a famous Delta frat boy:

"I put it to you, Greg - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!" (Leads the Deltas out of the hearing, all humming the Star-Spangled Banner.) -- Animal House

Dr.BDH said...

I embrace the "Transitive Voting Rule" (which I just named): by voting for a politician and/or party that embraces a extreme negative policy, prejudice, lie or belief, you have effectively adopted that policy, prejudice, lie or belief as your own.

Since you are voting for a person who will represent you (Representative, Senator, Assemblyperson, Councilperson, etc.) or an executive (President, Governor, Mayor, etc.) who will execute the laws your representatives enact, you have given your stamp of approval to those Policies, prejudices, etc., they act upon.

This should lead you to consider very carefully which distasteful negative positions you are willing to accept in a politician you vote for and also carefully consider which positions are so deplorable you cannot promote them by not doing what you can, with your vote, to prevent their being enacted into law.

Under the "Transitive Voting Rule" all Trump voters are branded with the racism, homophobia, misogyny, and xenophobia of Trump and Pence.

Under Both Siderism, of course, Clinton voters were guilty of approving home email servers.

RUKidding said...

I do believe that a significant portion of Trump voters were truly motivated by economic insecurity. It's unarguable that what's called the Rust Belt is a mess. And I feel that the Democratic party has done precious little to effect positive change for these citizens.

I also feel - my opinion - that Clinton ran a crap campaign, and her big honking error was mostly ignoring the Rust Belt states in favor of campaigning in states like TX and AZ, which she was never going to win. Had she gone to PA, WI & MI more, especially to smaller towns, and talked to the citizens there about her policies and ideas... well, she might have won.

People saw her as not interested in them bc she spent a lot of time fund raising with elites, movie stars, big name musicians and pro athletes. Trump lost no time pointing this out at his rallies.

So I don't believe that all those citizens are racists, homophobes, sexist, etc. But they did vote for someone actively promoting those hateful ideas. It's unfortunate. But people are hurting; desparate times call for desparate measusres; they voted desparately.

This should be a wake up call to the Democratic party about who they need to reach out to... as said, not all of them are racists, etc. Let's reach out to those who aren't. Let's try to make improvements, where citizens really need help.

But Van Jones can stick it where the sun don't shine in terms of his analysis. It's lazy, and it basically does NOT identify clearly what the issues are and how to really rectify them.

Stating that the DFHs now just need to "make nice" with conservative voters - whether in person or online - is just specious. I can make nice all I like. That's not going to make the slightest bit of difference to someone who voted for Trump, whether they're a racist or they're a genuinely great person who's desparate and needs help.

Get real, Van. Go talk Empress Pelosi and Ceasar Schumer with your "make nice" bullshit. It's our elected "representatives" who need to do a better job at reaching out to what was once the main constituency of the Democratic party: working class voters. The Democratic party has basically chosen to ignore the working classes, including union workers, in favor of currying favor with the elites.

Unless or until the Democratic party politicians stop being sold out and bought off by the 1% and start paying attention to and attempting to make improvements for the commoners, we're all screwed.

JMHO, of course.

steeve said...

Not all trump voters are racist, but all of them are stupid. Evangelicals lined up to vote for the least Christian candidate in American history, and the trump voters who pretended to hate the establishment voted for downticket establishment republicans.

Calling them stupid makes them not vote for you, but they've already been told not to vote for you, and since they're stupid they'll obey.

dinthebeast said...

"He stated that many liberals think conservatives are dumb"
I'm open to suggestions for a better adjective for 5.6 million of those white working class voters who just voted to kill their own health insurance. I don't have to reach far to reach out to white working class voters, being one myself and all.
Also, isn't he suggesting we treat them as if they were too stupid to comprehend who was trying to raise the minimum wage, make college free for non rich people, and try to make manufacturing jobs a reality again in what is perhaps the only way that is possible: by supporting the transition from fossil fuel energy to more sustainable sources. That's gonna happen. We could be the ones supplying the hardware for it.
Maybe there's something bad that happens to you if you go on TV and say that the most important Trump voters are whatever you call a group of people who chose to damage themselves in order to say a big "Fuck you!" to liberals and their centrist black president.

-Doug in Oakland

Robt said...

So by Van Jones's thought. Dems should be in Wyoming trying to convince Dick and Liz Cheney to vote Democratic party. And maybe wile there work on the rest of 37 conservatives spread out in the state.

Does Van really think John Boehner, Ryan go and do GOP recruiting work in Wyoming?

The send in Rush Limp_paw for 30 years and that is the only thing they get to hear.
Hell, McConnell only returns to Kentucky to get re elected.

There were several factors in the Trump loss.
One of them, Voter suppression. And the Dems inviting themselves over to the Cheney's for some cow tipping is fruitless. Not sure if Liz Cheney likes herself enough to vote for herself.

The rise of the TPP. Congress votes to give Obama fast track authority. Yeah! Republicans voted to give the Kenyan Muslim manchurian president Fast Track authority on the TPP.
But they couldn't trust his SCOTUS nomination for over a year.
The SCOTUS represents the GOP denying America any progress as throughout the 8 yrs. . But they voted for more repubs in Congress?

But van is trying to catch flies with sugar instead of vinegar. What he doesn't get is, we are not trying to catch flies.

Fritz Strand said...

With small town and farming America both on the endangered species list I am awaiting an analysis of who the 'rural' voters' were.

Terrance said...

I reside in a deep red western state (whose northeastern border even resembles Nixon's profile) that resoundedly voted for Herr Drumpf. Of course, in this state one could scoop up any random cowpie, put an "R" next to its name (let's just call it Butch Cowpie) and be easily assured of victory.

I'm also and old RVN combat vet who has a more than passing understanding of the appreciation of consequences, so (for the first time since 1968) went out and purchased a large caliber firearm similar to the one previously employed in my conscripted youth. I went out to the local public shooting range to sight it in and was amazed to see a large group of young hirsute males (resembling the recent Pizza-gate shooter) blasting away with high-powered semi-automatic weapons in the $3000 to $5000 price range. All seemed to be driving newer $50,000 jacked-up PUs and most spent the whole afternoon zipping a dollar bill downrange with each pull of the trigger. During the breaks I chatted with a few of the older shooters and was told it was even scarier on Saturdays and Sundays and to not even think about coming out on weekends. I suspect economics isn't the main reason for Drumpf's success.

My advice would be to purchase a reliable firearm for defense and learn to safely use it. I've witnessed relative calm turned to total insanity with just the firing of one round. Herr Donald can't help but create opportunities for that on a daily basis.

Just a reminder...the Civil War never really ended.

mere mortal said...

Nice Bill Hicks reference at the end.

proverbialleadballoon said...

Fuck why do I have to sorta agree with Van Jones. He's not talking about Alaska, Alabama, Wyoming, Mississippi, Missouri, states that are gone. Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, how do we convince those voters that Republican economics is strangling them, when they are more concerned about their family than equality. And/or convince the people that were disgusted by the whole thing and sat out, energize the indifferent. More people in this country voted for equality over fascism. And due to mollifying slaveowners going all the way back to the beginning, that equated to a loss, because the groupings weren't distributed in the proper portions. This is stupid and wrong, however, what it means is 'how do the Democrats win Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Wisconsin, and Iowa in 2020?'

Can we just rely on Trump and the Republicans to fuck up? /cough, 2004 This is shaping up terribly, that's for sure. Anti-fascism is the Start, but there has to be more, to Democratic messaging. What will Democrats do for the voter, economically. And my idea is the 21st Century Investment Act, where the federal government starts building the infrastructure we'll need tomorrow, today. With a national lottery of 10,000 worthy high school students to get subsidized education for a career, and the government buys up some of the current staggering student loan debt. Science, math, computer science, engineering, this country sucks at this stuff! and it is what we will need in the 21st century. (having substitute taught, common core is making it even worse because holy shit is the math terrible in common core, it is flat-out retarded. And I could see the difference in the kids who were older than common core, they were bad at math but they can at least do it most of them, some were quite good at it. Common core teaches them to do everything in their head, which is a neat party trick, but once you get to multi-step problems, they have been trained to not write anything down. Where just writing it down would show them the next step, but they won't write it down because they've been trained since 1st grade to do it in their head. So this next cohort going through school right now is terrible at math. Just terrible, make you want to cry terrible. Kids that'll be entering high school this year, next year. Our high school math scores four years from now are going to be down with Ghana and Paraguay and third world countries.) Plus, it's _inspiring.

keith gargus said...

Some Goopers try to deny rights of people of color because they skew heavily Democratic. Others, like Beauregard Sessions just don't like these modern notions of people all being equal, no matter where they fall on the tint spectrum. Either way, the party of the first part is either racist, or knowingly supporting racism. Either way, they're antebellum throwbacks and have no place in modern society.
Van Jones is incorrect. All Il Douche voters are complicit in crimes against the constitution and humanity. This isn't a discussion of the glaring weaknesses of the Dems. It's about the gooper march towards fascism, theocracy as a beard for racism and the destruction of democracy.

Jim Jones said...

Put simply...

this wasn't an election, this was a "cry for help" style suicide attempt by a significant portion of the populous and should be viewed and treated appropriately.

Also, the thing about racism. For the most part it tends to be a secondary attribute, meaning that in order for it to become this active there has to be something else(or several something elses) that trigger it.

Dave said...

I am not on Van Jones's side, there is equation between being racist and being an elitist. But as of now, the democratic side do have a blind spot that allowed Captain Pussy Grab to win.

They literally neglect their own base and for political situation for the past 8 years. The dem party also have a bad habit of marginizing their biggest supporter.. Liberals. I'm not talking about having Bernie Sanders in charge.. I mean the fact they're not afraid to punch and kick us and pretend we don't really exist.

Instead of having a message beside one of the candidates has tits and the other has a potty mouth and have some bad friends. There was no campaign that gave people a reason to vote for her. Her website said a lot of good things.. I assume, but the people who would go to it would be the people who already decided to vote for her.

Much like how the republicans were slowly gaining power after the midterms elections in 2010, the change people were suppose to have were very hard to feel. And she decided to say America was already great.... For some odd reason, the idea of "change" doesn't hit hillary. Of course republican hindered that change, but it seems the simple answer to that is to blame them 24 / 7 until the election

And also a lot of american are stupid. Some of them vote every 4 years and use the last month before voting to try and catch up or get a sense of what is really happening. I won't be surprise if a lot of people who voted for Hillary didn't know the republicans have been trying to repeal Obama Care for 8 years

The democratic party.. who has almost EVERYTHING on their side this round lost... they suck!