Thursday, March 27, 2014

Eleanor Abernathy: 1 -- Chris Hayes: 0

Last night on Kidz News "All In with Chris Hayes" --

-- Mr. Hayes made good on his promise to hold out the chair for every raving rightwing gorgon who can rub two Koch Brothers talking points together.

Because Liberals R Fair!

The results were...predictable:

However much the Liberal peanut gallery may gape in horror at this, the fact is she won and Hayes lost. She won because, by her lights, she strode fearlessly into the arena and bearded the Terrible Liberal Media Monster on its own ground: he lost because, in the end, he looked like just another Liberal who is sucker enough to actually believe that Conservatives are interested in real, substantive debate.

Or, as the late, great Steve Gilliard explained almost a decade ago:
What stunned me with the trolls was the idea that they could call me a racist and I would care. They came from NRO and Instapundit. I assumed that at best they were projecting. Conservatives make the assumption that liberals care what they think and will react to it.

There's a tendency for liberals to try and be fair, to consider other viewpoints, so we get baited by them in debates on terms that they set. I'm going to act on the following: I don't care what conservatives think. The NRO Corner thinks I'm a racist, I don't care, their opinions on race are meaningless.

Instacracker doesn't like what I say?

That's the purpose of the exercise.

I want conservatives to read this site and come away steaming. I don't want them to think they will like a word I will say here. I don't want them to think I will consider their opinions or viewpoints. I want them to think: boy he doesn't like conservatives and really, really doesn't care what we say.

I'm tired of people acting like these people can be reasoned with or talked to. They don't want to talk, they want to drive us away into a corner and ridicule our ideas.

I'm not writing to make conservatives happy. I want them to hate my opinions. I'm not interested in debating them. I want to stop them.
That said, I hope  Mr. Hayes' learns from his experience and that his show is not replaced by the Mattel and Mars Bar Quick Energy Chocobot Hour.


Habitat Vic said...

I happened to catch that "debate" between Hayes & Stefano live, but had to turn to another channel about a minute in (just watched the whole thing now). Same ol' same ol'.

Oh, and the $94K is still poverty that Stefano claimed? That's by taking the maximum FPL listings - 2 adults with 10 or more children - which allows $47K income per year, and then taking the 200% FPL level (not the 130% she wrongly stated). Ten kids is not typical of course, but in the fevered Fox-addled mind, well sure those freeloaders (blacks, Mexicans, especially) pretty much all have 10 or more kids.

A grain of truth, manipulated into a mountain of deception. Years ago I tried to correct a climate change denier on the then popular talking point that "volcanoes emit the same amount of CO2 as all the world's cars put together." Based upon flawed truth that yes, during the actual active eruption of a large volcano (think St Helens, Iceland, Krakatoa) they actually are emitting as much CO2 as all the worlds cars. For a period of a few hours or at most a few days. In a big volcano year about 2% of the yearly CO2 total. Other years its less than 1%. This Denier had an engineering degree from Purdue, I showed him all sorts of government/UN/NOAA/etc data. Got red in the face, got up and walked away, shaking his head.

Pointless to fight with logic, a waste of time. These conservative viewpoints must be beaten into the ground, ridiculed and sent back to the fringes of society. Period.

no said...

I couldn't believe what I was seeing either. It was obvious what her mission was-she even got him to apologize. It was a train wreck to start his show.

gratuitous said...

Depends on how one views winning and losing. About the second time Stefano intoned "How DARE you" I knew that she had nothing (and she drew from the "How DARE you" well probably half a dozen times). I don't fancy myself a towering intellect, so I'm pretty sure a lot of other people watching figured it out, too.

But if that looks like "winning" to some people, I'm afraid there's not much that can be done about that. I thought Hayes did a good job after getting rid of Stefano by having a cordial chat with the administration official who put the lie to practically everything Stefano had just ranted.

Hayes definitely needs to do a better job of cutting off shouters like Stefano, but I'm not sure that's possible, since that's what she draws a very large paycheck to do.

dinthebeast said...

I wonder what the ratings people are telling them about their guests and content. Maybe they feel like it legitimizes their show to present a sample of the other viewpoints that exist about the stories they cover.
Only, I know that there are crazy people out there. That's sort of why I'm watching Chris (or Rachel) instead of the crazy people, who do in fact have their own shows.
So all I can figure is that conflict must drive ratings.
And you are 100% correct; these people can't be argued with. In fact that's their fucking job.
So when I hear Rachel Maddow say that her life's professional goal is to interview Dick Cheney on TV, I think OK but I don't want to watch, just like I didn't want to watch her interview Rand Paul. It's just giving them a bigger platform than they already have to promote their bullshit. If I read that during the interview, Cheney was bitten and infected by a rabid weasel, then I would watch. Maybe.

-Doug in Oakland

n1ck said...

A lot of the time, it isn't about convincing other people who won't be convinced.

It's about getting facts and the arguments (narrative) out there for others to pick up and make their own.

For example, you could very well argue that every single liberal blog is trying to argue with conservatives, simply by making liberal arguments. Never mind that there isn't a debate ongoing...the fact that information is being shared is enough to make it an argument.

Arguments, from a legal standpoint, aren't shouting matches. When conservatives go all shoutycrackers, the best thing that a non-idiot can do is smile, laugh, or bring attention to it, thereby letting the audience know who is actually right, and who is just shouting.


Darrow, Clarence. He "lost" too.

Welch, Joseph.

Obama, Barack. Please proceed, Governor.

And my favorite: Biden, Joe, schooling the fuck out of Lyin' Paul Ryan.

While DG/the blog/any number of people will disagree, Bill fuckin' Nye.

Wingnuts are going to offer welfare to wingnuts, and Bill Nye got a bunch of wingnuts to waste money on a future money-losing adventure. Winning.

Bill Nye got Pat fuckin' Robertson to call Hamm (the "winner") an idiot.

Pat Robertson thinks Bill Nye won. So do I.

Nye wasn't there to convince people who believe in an invisible sky wizard to change their minds. He was there to show people on the fence just how fucking delusional and arbitrary religious nuts are.

Period. End of story.

Jim from MN said...

The "Jennifer Stefanos" of the world play the cable TV game to perfection--get your lies, bullshit and gibberish out there fast and furious using A LOT of the finite clock then let the other dupe use what little time they have left refuting your BS. Your lies get told twice - once by the liar then by the "panel" trying to retort. Then the "We'll have to leave it there" marks the end.

dinthebeast said...

Maybe Chris was distracted by the impending birth of his son, which happened early Thursday morning?

-Doug in Oakland

Fiddlin Bill said...

On the other hand, Samantha Bee's "I Watch Morning Joe" performance piece, which aired a couple of hours after the Hayes train wreck, absolutely nails the whole "there is a club" thing you've been observing for years here. Maybe you could just repost the whole piece as a post--it is incredible. Also, last night the did fact check the tea party troll on Hayes' slot.

Fiddlin Bill said...

Also too, that Errol Morris documentary on Rummy ought to be worth the ticket.

casimir said...


"If I read that during the interview, Cheney was bitten and infected by a rabid weasel, then I would watch. Maybe."

Very funny image. However, if this happened, the weasel would simply go into convulsions and expire.

Anonymous said...

Hi DG.
Here's the scary part. Paid agents of the wealthy like Jennifer Stefano are feeling confident enough to go on MSNBC. Her appearance was not to defend or justify the Koch's agenda. Through her demented screeching she was telling the MSNBC audience that facts don't matter and neither do the viewers of MSNBC nor the poor and uninsured of this once great country.

Davis Statton said...

"I want them to hate my opinions."

That one sentence has stayed with me all these years.

Unknown said...

Pigeon Chess, in its purest form. All Hayes had to say was, "you, madame, are an idiot, and I will not engage your stupidity nor your lies."

And, if you don't know what Pigeon Chess, google it.